"16. On canals and other improvements, public revenue and property, public debt and the powers and duties of the Legislature in Resolved, That three committees on the out-reference thereto; and the restrictions proper lines of the Constitution shall be appointed by the President, to-wit:

"1. The rights and priveleges of the citi- of the others. A committee had been appointzens and inhabitants of this State.

body, and until that duty was performed, the resolutions now introduced would be premature. { Mr. REED of Monroe saw nothing in the appointment of the committee on the rules that would conflict with the proposition now before the Convention.

Before the question was taken,

Mr. COOKERLY moved that the Convention adjourn until 2 P. M.

mittees. A course similar to this was pursued in the late Convention in Kentucky, held to revise and amend the Constitution of that State. A committee was raised who reported the rules and regulations, and also the standing committees. The language of the resolution introduced by him and already adopted, was very similar to the resolution adopted there. He had the official report of the debates at hand, from which he could read, if required, to show that he was not mistaken. The committee there raised was composed of thirteen members. After they had reported, the Convention took Mr. BORDEN moved that the number of the up their report; some of the committees they committee on rules as proposed by him on yes-stricken out, and their duties devolved on others proposed to raise being agreed to, and others terday, be fixed at thirteen-one from each judicial circuit-to be appointed by the Chair. differently designated. The motion was agreed to.

The motion was agreed to and the Convention adjourned.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

The Convention then resumed the consideration of Mr. Pettit's resolutions and amendments pending at the time of the adjournment.

Mr. BORDEN moved to refer the resolutions and amendments to a committee of the whole

on the state of the Commonwealth.

Now, the proposition which he had submitted, provided, as he had already intimated, for the formation of some committees which were perhaps unnecessary. All they had to do, howevthere to discuss this question. He had no pride er, was to go into committee of the whole, and of opinion in this matter; and if, on discussion, it was found that any of the committees propos{ed would be of no practical utility, they could easily be omitted. And if it was thought desirable to create any new committees, who should have charge of certain peculiar subjects which he had overlooked, that object also could be effected, by proposing resolutions to raise committees on those subjects.

Mr. BORDEN remarked, that the gentleman from Tippecanoe had offered a resolution that morning, providing for the appointment of three committees, to whom should be referred the existing Constitution of the State, for the purposes of revision and amendment. He (Mr. B.) had proposed as a substitute a projet, providing for the appointment of nineteen standing The committee on rules had been ordered to committees, to whom should be referred the consist of thirteen members, one from each juseveral articles of the present Constitution, and { dicial circuit; but, if it was thought proper, the also some other matters to which no allusion number might be increased to two from each was made in the Constitution. And he thought jndicial circuit, as the committee had not yet that he could satisfy the Convention, that, under been appointed. If the Convention had deterthe circumstances in which they were then mined to send the Constitution to a committee placed, the correct course would be to refer it of only a part of this body, for distribution, he to a committee of the whole Convention, as he could not but think that the proposition of the had had the honor to propose. On yesterday a gentleman from Monroe, (Mr. Read,) to take resolution had been passed raising a committee the subject and refer it to another committee, whose business it was to draw up rules and reg-would be, in effect, to revoke the order of yesulations for the government of this body. Now, terday, authorizing the Chair to appoint the first with great deference to the judgment of others, committee. it was his opinion that upon this committee But, in his opinion, the best course now to properly devolved the duty of organizing the harmonize the views of all parties, was to refer necessary standing committees, if it was the the subject to a committee of the whole, in the design of the Convention to entrust that busi- manner proposed by him. In submitting this ness to a committee of the Convention rather proposition, he had done it with great diffidence, than do it themselves. For instance, they had which arose as well from the distinguished taladopted the rules of the late House of Repre-ent by which he was surrounded, as from the sentatives of this State for their temporary gov-fact of his being deficient in legislative experiernment; and by referring to those rules, itence, never before having been honored with a would be seen that among them there was one seat in a legislative assembly. providing for the appointment of seventeen This Convention had assembled for great and standing committees: a committee on educa-important purposes. Their action was not to tion, one on corporations, one on benevolent institutions, &c., &c. Now, the resolution already adopted included these committees, for it provided that the committee having charge of the subject of preparing rules and orders for their government, should organize these com

be of a temporary character, if the work of their hands was finally approved by the people. The decisions they made to-day were not to be repealed to-morrow. On the contrary, their action would, in all human probability, affect for good or evil, the interests of millions yet un

proposition, down to the close of the session of the Convention, to raise committees to investigate some matter which would and could be attended to now if a full and free opportunity were afforded for discussion. He thought it important, that before the Constitution was referred to a select committee for distribution, they should have the views of the members as to the proper distribution of the whole subject; and if they thought proper, briefly their reasons for it. By adopting this course, they would undoubtedly have a more satisfactory and proper distribution than could be obtained in any other way.

born, who were to come after them; and as he desired it, have an opportunity to bring forward hoped and trusted, would, for countless ages to a proposition to raise a committee to enquire come, occupy this noble State. He did not de- into and report on any subject he might deem sign to detain them from the great duties be-worthy the attention of his associates in this fore them, in commenting on the magnitude of body. But if this opportunity is not now affordthe trust reposed in them by their constituents.ed, they would have, probably, proposition after It was sufficient to say, that theirs was the task of laying the corner stone for the future political security of the people of Indiana, and especially to remove from the Constitution those defects which thirty-four years of experience had made manifest to the people. It seemed to him that this Convention stood, as it were, upon the foundations of their political organiza- | tion, charged with the high duty of reconstructing the political edifice under which they all lived. And he thought it was not only proper, but highly necessary, that even the initiatory steps which they might adopt at the commencement of the session, with the view of beginning the work before them, should be such as would tend to harmony of purpose and unanimity of action. He felt convinced, unless they all set out, not only with a desire, but with a strong determination to pursue a course of conciliation, as he had already intimated, that the Convention would fail to realize to the fullest extent that it could, if so disposed, the expectations of the people in convoking it. And for one, he could aver that he was not wedded to any particular plan, and only desired to pursue that course having for its object the most effectual mode of carrying out this design. Nevertheless, he had, since his arrival here, taken some pains to examine the manner of proceeding adopted in the Conventions that had been held in the different States of the Union; and he was convinced that the mode he had indicated would be attended with fewer difficulties, and productive of better results, than any other course that had been suggested.

The principle never to entrust to another that which they could do just as well themselves, he thought, should influence the minds of members in deciding this question. If the Convention believed they could do the work as well themselves as if it were referred to a select committee, he presumed they would prefer to do it, as he thought it would be but a poor compliment to this body to suppose that an equal, if not greater amount of intelligence and wisdom could not be found in the whole Convention than in a fractional part of it, however able and intelligent the committee might be who should be appointed under the resolution proposed by his friend from Monroe.

The committee of the whole was a mode of legislative procedure with which they were familiar, it being much used in the legislative assemblies of our country, both in the National and State legislatures; it being usual to refer bills of great importance to a committee of the He considered that the people had sent them whole, where they received their first considerathere to accomplish a very important business, tion and discussion. Could not the Convention and the question now to be decided was, intake up the Constitution of Indiana and refer it what manner they should approach the subject -where they were to begin, and how they should progress with the revision of the Constitution. Whether they referred the Constitution to the consideration of a committee of the whole or to a select committee, as proposed by the gentleman from Monroe, (Mr. Read,) was, in his estimation, merely a question of convenience. The matter to be decided was how they could best classify and arrange the different subjects embraced in the Constitution, and others upon which they would probably be called to act, so that each particular subject could be referred to its appropriate and peculiar committee. And he respectfully submitted, that the reference of the Constitution to a committee of the whole, would tend greatly to expedite the business before them. In this committee, any gentleman upon the floor, however humble his pretensions might be, could, if he

to a committee of the whole, and in that committee act upon it, in the same manner that the House of Representatives of the Union acts on the President's message, and as both branches of our State legislature do on the Governor's message? The first article respecting the rights and privileges of the citizens and inhabitants of this State usually called the "Bill of Rights," could be read and then a resolution offered that so much of the Constitution as related to that subject be referred to a committee. So with reference to the remaining articles and subdivisions of the Constitution; and if any gentleman was desirous of having any particular subject investigated, not in the present Constitution, he had only to move the formation of a committee to have charge of that special subject. Thus the various topics embraced in the Constitution could be dissected, if he might be allowed the use of the expression, arranged in

proper order, and by the committee of the whole reported to the Convention, and when the Convention had agreed to the report, it would then refer the various subjects to appropriate committees.

would be attached to these three committees. Now if this grand committee was to be appoint{ed, he would ask, what was this Convention to be engaged in while that committee was deliberating? Must they sit there with their arms folded, meeting only to adjourn until this com mittee was ready to report. A sense of duty to his constituents, constrained him to oppose both propositions, as he desired to begin to-day the work they were sent to execute.

It would be recollected by gentlemen conversant with the constitutional history of the country from which they derived their language, and, to a great extent, their laws, institutions, and modes of parliamentary procedure, that the great legislative contest fought there between There was another subject to which he would the friends of freedom and slavery, was in com- allude before he took his seat, as it might save mittee of the whole, then termed the Grand him the trouble of rising again to speak on the Committee of Supplies. And he could not but matter, and that was in regard to the manner of consider such a mode of procedure as one wor-constituting these committees to whom the thy of attention and respect, not only because Convention should order the several subjects to of its antiquity, but for the good it had accom- be referred. After the committee of the whole plished. For what purpose, he would enquire, { had reported sundry resolutions to the Convenhad the people of Indiana, more than a year tions distributing the various parts of the Consince, by an overwhelming vote, called this stitution to different committees, and this body Convention? Was it to be supposed that they had agreed to the report, the question would had convoked this assembly merely for the pur-naturally arise how the committees should be pose of making one or two slight alterations in constituted. In the Convention that formed the organic law of the State? Certainly not. the present State Constitution, there were He believed that important reforms were need- { twelve standing committees raised, but the State ed in that instrument, and as in a committee of had increased in all her great interests, to such the whole, there was more freedom of debate an extent, as in his opinion to render it necessa- · and action, and less restraint of parliamentary {ry to raise some six or seven more committees forms and usages, he believed by letting it take than was then deemed necessary. He proposthat course every gentleman in the Conventioned to organize nineteen standing committees, would have an opportunity of showing to what extent, in the way of reform, his constituents desired him to go.

and to add a sufficient number of members to each committee to embrace in their deliberations every member of the Convention. Another advantage resulting from the projet His reasons for this was that he presumed he had suggested, was, that the several subjects there were some members of this body, who, before them would receive a two-fold considera- like himself, never having had the honor of a tion, being first considered in committee of the seat in a deliberative body, were conseqently, whole and then in the Convention. Proposi-young and unfledged in the business of legislations would not only be freely offered, but with great freedom discussed; and they should obtain what was much to be desired, an open and free comparison of opinion. Thus, when they returned into Convention to act on the matter, they would understand each others' views much better than in any other mode they could adopt. If there was any evil to be deplored, it was that of hasty action, and this course would obviate it to some extent.

Let his suggestion be adopted, and they could commence, at once, the work they were sent there to perform.

{

tion. And even of those who might have here-tofore served in our State Legislature, there probably were some who, though men of clear heads and sound principles, yet might not possess what was usually termed a talent for pub{lic speaking, and, unless they were placed on some of the committees, we shall loose the benefit of their intelligence and counsel in fram{ing the Constitution. This feature in the organization of the committees he regarded as of paramount importance. It was a position every member was entitled to occupy, and the advantage was thereby gained of the entire wisdom and prudence of the whole body being directed the consideration of the subject before them. He apologized to the Convention for having so long and, perhaps, so unnecessarily, occupied their time, and observed he did not expect to occupy much of their time in debate, and would trouble them with as few propositions, as were consistent with the interest of those he was sent to represent.

He had heard it intimated since he had been here, that there was a proposition to be submitted by a distinguished gentleman on this floor, to raise a select committee of this body, to consist of some twenty-five or more members, to whom was to be entrusted the entire business of framing a new Constitution, and reporting it to this Convention; and the proposition now under consideration, and which he had moved to amend, proposed to raise only three committees, Mr. T. SMITH observed that he did not one on each of the great departments of gov- profess to understand much about legislative ernment; and he presumed should it be adopt-proceedings, or the necessary rules for the goved, not more than one-third of the members {ernment of legislative bodies-never having

paid much attention to them-nevertheless, he considered the mode just suggested of referring the Constitution of Indiana to the committee of the whole, the most correct mode, and the one that should be adopted. The idea had been suggested to his mind some time since, by a gentleman residing in the northern part of the State, and he favored the plan because it afforded an opportunity for every member, at the outset, to present his views. It would lead to a more extended discussion, which was eminently desirable. He was opposed to any unnecessary consumption of time, and he regarded the formation of a number of large committees, as tending to that result. They could take up the Constitution, article by article, and it might be that they would agree upon those articles while in committee of the whole, thus making short work of the labor before them. It was a false idea that every resolution and subject that had been discussed in the Convention of Kentucky, and Ohio, and New York, had to be gone over again in the Convention of Indiana. He was opposed to any such course of procedure. The idea that a large book must be made of their proceedings was equally absurd; and he could not but think that if those proceedings were to go entirely unreported, the term of their session would soon be brought to a close.

Mr. BORDEN renewed his motion to refer the whole subject to the committee of the 'whole.

{

Mr. KELSO said, that it seemed to be the desire of gentlemen to do up all the business of the Convention that afternoon; but for his part, he saw no necessity for being in such a desperate hurry to get through with the business before them. His friend from Allen appeared very desirous of getting into committee of the whole. This might be desirable, but as far as his experience went, he would say he had seen more frolics and waste of time occur during the sessions of such committees, than at any other time. How, he would ask, could a subject be committed, when there was no committees existing to which it might be referred. It was about as senseless a proceeding as for a man to search for the hole made by thrusting his finger into water. (Laughter.) They had adopted the rules of the late House of Representatives, and by these rules they should be governed. He would have the Chair, then, appoint the committee ordered to be raised on yesterday, and that committee report to the Convention the necessary standing committees. The Convention could then decide upon the requisite committees, and then his friend from Allen might bring forward his proposition to go into committee of the whole for the purpose of distributing the Constitution.

Mr. READ, of Monroe, said, he understood that on yesterday a committee had been appointed to draft rules and regulations for the government of the Convention; this was all The PRESIDING OFFICER stated, that it the duty which that committee was required to was not in order to refer the Constitution of perform. It had no authority whatever vested Indiana to the committe of the whole that in it to raise the standing committees. In the subject was not now before the Convention. New York convention, a committee was first "The question pending was the resolution pro-organized who simply reported rules and reguviding for the appointment of the standing lations. So in the Ohio Convention. Then committees. some gentleman came forward and presented a Mr. BORDEN said, he would modify his plan of action to the consideration of the Conmotion, and move the reference of the resolu-vention, which plan of proceedings was adopted. tion to the committee of the whole. Now they had appointed a committee on rules The question being upon the motion of the and regulations, and thus completed the organgentleman from Allen, (Mr. Borden,) Mr. ED-ization of the Convention. The next thing MONSTON said, he was far from setting himself up to be a judge of parliamentary law, but as he understood parliamentary usage, he certainly thought that upon the committee on rules and regulations, appointed yesterday, { devolved the duty of drafting committees, and reporting their organization to the Convention. It then remained for the Convention to decide which were necessary and which were not.Their number could be either diminished or increased. This had been the practice in all Legislative bodies. When these committees were appointed, then there existed something tangible to which references could appropriately be made. He trusted that under the resolution of yesterday, the chair would proceed to appoint a committee who should report rules and regulations for their government, and that he would also appoint the necessary standing committees.

was to appoint a committee who should report a plan for the business of the Convention.The amendment he had already offered, was not worded in the manner he would prefer; he would therefore withdraw that amendment, and offer the following as a substitute. "That a committee of be appointed to report a plan for the business of this Convention, and to designate the number and functions of the different committees."

Mr. BORDEN said, he would withdraw the amendment he had that morning offered, for a season, in the hope that some general amendment, effecting the purpose he wished to attain, would be adopted. He would merely remark that the gentleman's attempt at ridicule was one thing, and sound argument another. The motion he had made was precisely the same in effect as one made in the Virginia Convention, by one of its most eminent members. He did not