Question. Do you know of anything else you wish to state to the committee?

Answer. I cannot think of anything particular.

Question. What would be the fate of the freedmen in case the Freedmen's Bureau was abolished and the federal forces withdrawn?

Answer. They would be in a worse state of slavery than ever before those that remain. Question. Would they be suffered to remain in the country?

Answer. I do not think they would, as a general thing, unless they remained as servants, subject to the absolute rule of the whites. They have not any idea of prosecuting white men for offences against colored people; they do not appreciate the idea. do not think, and have not thought for two years, that there is any way to reach these people except for the government to take control of the country and give perfect security to all loyal people so as to repopulate the country.

Question. In such a case as that, there must be an exodus of rebels?

Answer. There would probably be a great exodus of rebels if we took stronger measures. Question. Would that be injurious to the material prosperity of the State?

Answer. I do not think it would be injurious to the material industry of the country; I think, on the contrary, it would be beneficial, and for this reason: They feel a great repugnance to northern enterprise, and will use all their influence to keep it out, and their influence is great, for the people of that country have been always subject to their leaders, obeying their orders as much as soldiers obey military orders. To see any northern capital come in there and set up industrious pursuits, manufactures, or anything of that kind, so as to increase immigration from the north, is distasteful to them, and they will do everything to prevent it. The action of the legislature shows that in its proposition-to make a five years' residence necessary for voting.

Question. How does that measure stand in the legislature?

Answer. I understand they have amended it so as to reduce the term to two years. The constitution which the loyal men made before the breaking up of the confederacy provided for one year's residence only, as is usual in other States. They are going on to legislate without reference to that constitution at all.

Question. They do not regard the constitution formed at Alexandria as of any force? Answer. They do not seem to.

Question. Is it not under that constitution the legislature is assembled ?

Answer. Yes, so far as the form is concerned.

Question. They disregard the provisions of the constitution?

Answer. They discard its provisions in many respects. There is one simple provision in it providing for a change by the legislature in one particular item; they make that a steppingstone and an excuse to do pretty much as they have a mind to with the constitution. Question. What is that item?

Answer. It was in reference to the disfranchisement of a certain portion of the population. The constitution made two different classes of disfranchised persons, and provided that the legislature might enfranchise one of these classes; that, I think, was the extent of the provi sion. They make good use of that clause. I do not think of any other items at this time.

WASHINGTON, January 31, 1866.

Lysander Hill sworn and examined.

By Mr. HOWARD:

Question. Where do you reside?

Answer. Alexandria.

Question. What is your occupation?

Answer. I am a lawyer.

Question. How long have you resided in Alexandria?

Answer. I have resided in Alexandria for two or three years.

Question. Of what State are you a citizen?

Answer. Virginia.

Question. Are you a native of Virginia?

Answer. No, sir; I am a native of Maine.

Question. What have been your opportunities to observe the state of public feeling in Virginia since the close of hostilities in regard to the government of the United States? Answer. I have made it something of a study to observe the state of feeling there; and while I have been confined for the most part, in my own observations, to the city of Alexandria, yet I have seen a great many persons from all parts of the State.

Question. Have you seen persons from the southern and eastern parts of the State?
Answer. Yes; I have seen persons from all parts of the State.

Question. What is the general state of feeling on the part of the rebel portion of the State of Virginia towards the government of the United States-friendly or unfriendly? Answer. I think it is very unfriendly. There are very few, indeed, of those who are rebels, who would accept the present state of affairs and go in honestly with a reconstructed State

government; but the majority of them are just as bitter and more bitter than they were when actual hostilities were going on.

Question. What has produced that increase of bitterness?

Answer. I think that the lenient course of the government towards them has tended to produce it. The abolition of all restrictions on the elective franchise, admitting those who were rebels to come in to a full participation in the elective privileges, has made them a great deal worse than they were before.

Question. From what source has that relaxation proceeded?

Answer. It has proceeded really from Governor Peirpoint. Peirpoint engineered the matter after he went to Richmond.

Question. Is there no limitation in Virginia of the right of rebels to vote?

Answer. Not in the slightest.

Question. And has the present legislature been elected without reference to the distinction between loyal and disloyal citizens?

Answer. Yes, sir; elected almost unanimously by rebels.

Question. Then the legislature is a rebel legislature?

Answer. It is a rebel legislature emphatically.

Question. And that character has arisen from the policy of Governor Peirpoint, you think? Answer. There is no doubt of it at all.

Question. What restrictions or qualifications does the Alexandria constitution contain in regard to the right of voting?

Answer. The Alexandria constitution imposed certain restrictions on the right of voting and holding office. Article III of the constitution reads as follows:

“QUALIFICATION OF VOTERS.

"SEC. I. Every white male citizen of the commonwealth of the age of twenty-one years who has been a resident of the State for one year and of the county, city, and town where he offers to vote, for six months next preceding an election, and who has paid all taxes assessed to him after the adoption of this constitution under the laws of the commonwealth, after the reorganization of the county, city, or town where he offers to vote, shall be qualified to vote for members of the general assembly and all officers elective by the people: Provided, however, That no one shall be allowed to vote who, when he offers to vote, shall not thereupon take, or shall not before have taken, the following oath:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the laws made in pursuance thereof as the supreme law of the land, anything in the constitution or laws of the State of Virginia, or in the ordinances of the convention that assembled in Virginia on the 13th day of February, 1861, to the contrary notwithstanding; and that I will uphold and defend the government of Virginia as restored by the convention which assembled at Wheeling on the 11th day of June, 1861; and that I have not, since the 1st day of January, 1864, voluntarily given aid or assistance in any way to those in rebellion against the government of the United States for the purpose of promoting the same. "But the legislature shall have power to pass an act or acts prescribing means by which persons who have been disfranchised by this provision shall or may be restored to he rights of voters when, in their opinion, it would be safe to do so. Any person falsely so swearing shall be subject to the penalties of perjury.

"No person shall hold any office under this constitution who shall not have taken and subscribed the oath aforesaid; but no person shall vote or hold office under this constitution who has held office under the so-called confederate government or under any rebellious State government, or who has been a member of the so-called confederate congress, or a member of any State legislature in rebellion against the authority of the United States, excepting therefrom county offices."

Question. State what has been done under that provision of the constitution.

Answer. This was the provision of the Alexandria constitution which was adopted in April, 1864, and is the fundamental law of the State. The legislature which was in existence at the time of the surrender of Lee consisted of about twenty members altogether. As soon as Governor Peirpoint got to Richmond and had time to communicate with the leading Virginians, chiefly of the rebel persuasion, he sent around to the members of the legislature asking them to meet him in Richmond to consult with him in regard to the state of public affairs. After they went to Richmond he issued a call for an extraordinary session of the legislature. That legislature met at Richmond on the 20th or 21st of June last, and immediately repealed all restrictions upon voting and referred it to the people at the next election whether the legislature which next met should not be clothed with power to repeal all restrictions upon holding office or upon amending the constitution. All restrictions having been taken away from voting, power was given almost unanimously to the legislature that is next to convene to alter or amend that article of the constitution. The legislature that has just assembled at Richmond this winter has considered itself clothed with full power to do this, and has proceeded to make such amendments as they considered necessary. These amendments have been to abolish all restrictions upon holding office or voting, growing out of the rebellion. In electing members of that legislature I may say that the first qualification throughout the State was that

the candidate should have been actively and warmly engaged in the rebellion against the government of the United States; any person who put himself upon his record of loyalty was sure to be defeated. The condition of the people as regards obedience to the government of the United States has been growing gradually worse since the surrender of Lee; and it has been rapidly growing worse, I think, since the legislature met at Richmond.

Question. What effect has the President's liberality in extending pardons and amnesty to the rebels had upon the rebel community in Virginia?

Answer. It has had the same effect in character as the repeal of the restrictions upon suffrage and voting. It has tended to produce upon the minds of the late rebels in Virginia the idea that they can split the Union party of the country, and array President Johnson and certain classes of the Union party with him in opposition to that party which did the actual and effective work in carrying on the war. They are going to form an extensive alliance with the copperheads, and to combine to confiscate the government of the United States. That is the idea they have. They have learned to regard President Johnson as a natural ally of theirs against the republican party.

Question. Have you ever seen any of them who have talked with the President about that?

Answer. I do not recollect that I have.

Question. How do they feel about a foreign war?

Answer. There is a small party among the old men, I suppose, who would do nothing in case of foreign war; and they might perhaps advise others to do nothing, but the great majority of the active men, the young men, would try to assist any foreign nation at war with us. I have no doubt that, in the event of a foreign war, the first thing a foreign power would do would be to send emissaries among them who would find material ready for use, plenty of it. I do not know that I have heard any of them express that sentiment boldly, but I have heard of their expressing such sentiments, that they were desirous of a foreign

war.

Question. Is the organization known as the Knights of the Golden Circle in vogue in any part of Virginia?

Answer. If it is it is secret.

Question. Do you know of the rebels entertaining any plan of reviving the rebellion in any form whatever?

Answer. A great many threaten to revive it in the same old form. They intend to revive it in Congress, and in the administration of the country, if they ever get the opportunity. They are just as hostile and more hostile to the government of the United States to-day than they were a year ago. They know that their military power is broken, and that is all the difference.

Question. Have they got any arms or military facilities at all in case of an outbreak? Answer. Not to any great extent. There is a quantity of arms, of course, all through the south, but not to such an extent as before the rebellion.

Question. Have you any grounds to suppose that there is any concert between the leaders of the rebellion now existing, having in view a renewal of the war, or an attempt to get out of the Union?

Answer. I should not suppose there was a concert with a view of getting out of the Union, but I would have fears in case of a foreign war.

Question. Are you a practicing lawyer?

Answer. Yes; and I have made it a special study to examine the feelings of these people since I have been in Alexandria. I have had a great deal of curiosity to know what their feelings were, and what changes have been going on. I have tried to induce immigration there, in the hope of changing public sentiment in that way; and I have been obliged, of course, to understand the feelings of the people in order to talk with the persons who were coming from the north, and who would ask me a great many questions. I have probably seen hundreds coming here with a view of settling, and have been obliged to answer their questions and give them information, and I am constantly looking out for that information. Question. Do you suppose it is safe for northern men to go into Virginia for the purpose of settlement?

Answer. At present, in some parts of Virginia, if they will ignore all political ideas and simply attend to the cultivation of their land, they may remain there.

Question. Suppose they do not ignore or suppress their Union sentiments?

Answer. Then I would not want to advise any one to go to Virginia.

Question. Has your acquaintance extended beyond Virginia into the other rebel States?

Answer. No, sir; except as derived from the public prints and from gentlemen who have been there.

Question. Is there any further statement that you wish to make?
Answer. I do not think of any.

Josiah Millard sworn and examined.

By Mr. HOWARD:

Question. Where do your reside?

WASHINGTON, January 31, 1866.

Answer. Alexandria, Virginia.

Question. Of what State are you a native?

Answer. I am a native of Massachusetts.

Question. How long have you resided in Alexandria?

Answer. For three years past. I have been in the State of Virginia nine or ten years. Question. What is your occupation?

Answer. I am now assessor of internal revenue for the third district of Virginia.

Question. What counties does your district include?

Answer. Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, Loudon, Clark, Shenandoah, Frederick, Warren, and other counties.

Question. You must be quite well acquainted with the state of public feeling in your collection district?

Answer. Tolerably well.

Question. Is it loyal or friendly to the government of the United States?

Answer. No, sir, except a very small proportion compared with the population.

Question. About what proportion?

Answer. The original Union men, who were favorable to the government from the commencement, are about one out of twenty-perhaps hardly that.

Question. Were you residing in Alexandria during the war?

Answer. No, sir; I was residing in Loudon county. I was taken prisoner by the rebels on the 28th of May, 1861. I was the first prisoner taken in Virginia.

Question. What effect had the emancipation proclamation upon the rebels?

Answer. They did not think it had any effect at all. They did not think it would ever be executed.

Question. Did they look upon it as a pleasant proceeding on the part of Mr. Lincoln ? Answer. They looked upon it as something that could not be maintained.

Question. As if it was the "Pope's bull against the comet?"

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. How did they like the fact that their slaves were all emancipated?

Answer. They did not like it at all. They protested against it to the very last, and some

of them in the country now are trying their very best to make the colored men believe that they are still theirs; that they are not free.

Question. Have you ever occupied any other public station than you now hold?

Answer. No, not in Virginia.

Question. How do the rebel people feel in regard to the preservation of the government of the United States? Are they willing to pay the taxes necessary to preserve it and carry

it on?

Answer. It is with great reluctance that they pay their taxes.

Question. Suppose they had it in their power, would they abolish all taxes to pay the national debt?

Answer. Yes, sir, unanimously so. I do not think there would be one dissenting voice among them. I have heard it repeatedly.

Question. Would they consent to contribute their proper share to the payment of the rebel debt if they had the opportunity?

Answer. I think they would. They simply claim that they are loyal now from necessity. Question. Suppose that necessity was taken off?

Answer. To illustrate what I believe to be the general feeling among the rebels, I will state a conversation I had with one of the leading ones the other day. He said to me, “Sir, I entered into this thing in good faith. I honestly believed it to be right. I now propose to be a loyal man, to accept the laws of the United States, and to carry out all proclamations and requirements of the President of the United States in good faith." I said, “Suppose we examine the record and see. There is one thing you have not done; you did not open your church on Thanksgiving day." He seemed to be very much agitated when I spoke about that, and said, "Why, sir, do you think I could get upon my knees and ask God to forgive me for something which I believed to be right?" Said I, "That is the point. You are as big a rebel to-day as you ever were. You are simply loyal because the strong arm of the government makes you so." And that is the general feeling with all the leading men I have conversed with, and I have conversed with a great many.

Question. Has there been great destruction of property in your district during the war? Answer. Yes, sir, very great.

Question. What kind of property has suffered principally?

Answer. Agricultural property, live stock, and mill property.

Question. Have you ever heard anything said by leading men in your neighborhood about

a foreign war with the United States?

Answer. Not directly. I have heard it intimated that if such a thing should come up, and if there was a possible chance of their gaining their independence, they would join any power to accomplish that object.

Question. Have you heard that intimated very frequently in conversation?

Answer. Not very frequently. They do not intimate it unless you get them rather excited and warmed up in conversation. They do not like to be heard saying that, particularly persons who have taken the oath, because they think there might be some advantage taken of it.

Question. Could a jury be called in your collection district which would convict a rebel or treason for making war against the government of the United States?

Answer. No, sir, it could not, nor could there be one selected in the ordinary way to give a Union man any justice.

Question. What is that owing to?

Answer. To their violent prejudices against Union men.

Question. Would they treat men from the free States in the same way in your courts? Answer. Yes, sir; I think they would.

Question. How would they treat the freedmen?

Answer. The freedmen would have no show of justice at all, not a particle.

Question. Do they seem to like or dislike the freedmen as such?

Answer. They dislike them as such. Up in Loudon county and in the valley they have resolved not to employ the freedmen.

Question. Are there associations for that purpose?

Answer. Rather neighborhood association of that kind. I know of several such.
Question. How are they going to get their work done?

Answer. They will try to get white foreign immigration.

Question. What is the reason of that? Is not work done by a negro as good, in their estimation, as that done by a white man?

Answer. The negro being free, they cannot say to him, as they used to, "Tom, you must do this, and if you don't I will give you a cut.' They cannot talk in that kind of way. They say they have raised the negroes, and have fed them all their lives, and it is the negro's duty to work for them.

Question. The point of mortification is that they cannot lawfully whip them any more? Answer. Yes, sir; that is it.

Question. They regard that as depriving them of a luxury?

Answer. Yes; I think so. I have seen them performing it as if it was a luxury.

Question. Have you in your mind any particular facts which you wish to state to the committee-any_facts illustrating your views?

Answer. I only desire to say this-that unless Congress relieves us by giving us some other kind of government, either a military government, or some other government that will protect the Union men, the firm Union men, who have been firm to the government, have got to leave Virginia and the south. They cannot remain there. It would not be safe for me to go back on my farm and reside there.

Question. What have you to apprehend?

Answer. From their threats I apprehend personal violence.

Question. Are such threats of frequent occurrence?

Answer. Very frequent.

Question. You are a Union man and an employé of the government?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Suppose you should be murdered by an ex-rebel out of revenge and from dislike to you as a Union man, and suppose your murderer should be indicted and prosecuted in the proper court of that district, and a jury should be called under the existing laws of Virginia, have you not grounds to suppose that, in case the evidence was plain and clear, the jury would convict that man?

Answer. That would depend upon circumstances very materially. If the case was very plain and clear, and there was no possible chance to cover it up, the jury might bring in a verdict of guilty, but it would be very pressing circumstances that would compel them to do it.

Question. Under such circumstances you would rather expect that they would render a verdict of guilty, if the evidence was plain and without doubt ?

Answer. Yes, sir; if there was no possible chance to avoid it. I have seen cases tried there similarly, which, to me, were as plain as the sun that shines, and the verdict was rendered quite the reverse.

Question. And that, you suppose, is owing to the prejudice felt generally by rebels against Union men?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Are they still anxious for independence of the national government?

Answer. The leaders are, all of them. There are a good many men who are very poorreduced almost to starvation-who say "we have got enough fighting; we are not going to fight any more." But hitherto the leaders have always induced them to do what they wanted, and they will probably do the same in the future.

Question. Has the material prosperity of the people in that district been seriously affected by the ravages of the war?