cluded by moving, "That it be an instruction to the Committtee on the bill, to insert a clause for exempting all income arising from lands, or from property in the funds, in the same manner as income arising from any other species of property, profession, or employment."

The Speaker rose and said, that considering the turn which the debate had taken, he felt it his duty to state, that he entertained strong doubts whether it would be regular, or consistent with the established order of parliamentary proceedings, to put a question from the chair, upon the motion proposed by the right hon. gent. conceiving, as he did, that the Committee would have power to adopt the principle without the instruction, which would, therefore, be unnecessary. He said he had not been able to recollect any case in which such a motion had been put from the chair, nor had he been reminded of any such case in the course of the debate; nor had he ever understood that the power given to a Committee by a vote of instruction, was mandatory upon them to adopt the purpose for which they were so instructed; at the same time he should cheerfully do his duty in putting any question from the chair which the House should think proper to direct.

Mr. Pitt professed the highest deference to the authority of the chair; but said, that although he had not thought it necessary to search for specific precedents applicable to this case, which were so numerous on the Journals, though not, perhaps, in any recent practice, he had, however, requested a friend to look to the Journals, who had found one. precisely in point. It was in session of 1721, vol. 19, page 623, when a bill was before the House for appointing commissioners to examine the debts due by a paymaster of the forces, and it was moved as an instruction to the Committee on the bill, to nominate the same commissioners as had been appointed by the bill of the preceding years. then was an instance where the Committee, without such instruction, might nominate or reject those persons or any of them; but the instruction being mandatory, they were bound and did comply with it.

Here

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he. felt great delicacy in delivering his opinion on the point which had created the doubt expressed from the chair; and though he could not certainly take upon him to say, that the motion made for this instruction was irregular, he certainly might be allowed to give his opinion, that it was not usual, and was a measure of that kind which he could least of all have expected on the present oc

casion. In the very nature of things, it was impossible that a Committee should be instructed to do that, for the doing of which there is a discretionary power vested in it. Such a proceeding was always used in cases where a larger power was intended to be given, but never in a case of this kind. It had been stated by his right hon. friend, that some gentlemen in the course of the debate, had contended that such an instruction as the present was a direct reflection on and attack against his Majesty's Ministers. He did not recollect to have heard such a sentiment delivered by any one; and, for his own part, he assured the House, and his right hon. friend, that he personally had never felt it as a subject of complaint. He only wondered he had not heard of it before that night. He had made it a point to take the opinions of all those who could be supposed best capable of forming a true judgment of the nature of the public funds, and in what respect this tax would affect them, by being laid on the income arising therefrom; and from every information he had been able to acquire, he could not find that any one person with whom he had conversed on the subject, was at all aware, or had conceived the smallest idea, that the distinction of which his right hon. friend complained was in any respect held to be inconsistent with the public faith. It was not, he said, his intention at present to enter into that question; but he would beg the House to consider the state in which it now stood. This was a bill which it was necessary should pass as soon as possible, as on it very much depended the public credit of the country. Every method had been taken to expedite it, by stating what were its contents; and if there had been any serious objection to any part of it, such might certainly have been brought forward in the previous stages of the bill, When the House went into a Committee, pro forma, in order that the bill might be printed for the consideration of the House, on the question that the Speaker do leave the chair, it would have been competent to his right hon. friend to have moved, that before that should take place, such parts of the bill as relate to public credit should be left out, and the merits of this question might have been then discussed, in a manner much more satisfactorily than by the method pursued on the present occasion. That stage of the bill had passed; and now, when the House was going into the Committee, for the purpose of bringing into full and fair discussion, the principle and merits of the bill, the motion was brought forward, for an instruction to the Committee to exempt certain persons

He

from being taxed, under an idea that taxing them was a breach of public faith. would not say that such a motion was irregular, but he thought it not very candid, and that it would be a much better mode of proceeding for the right hon. gent. even now to move that such parts of the bill as relate to the public credit be left out, than to persist in his present motion.

Mr. Pitt said, it could not be very interesting to the House to know exactly at what time the right hon. gent. was made acquainted with his disapprobation of the tax on the funds; but he could and would positively say, that he had given him intimation of it from the moment he knew of the bill. He was surprised to find himslf now reprobated for not having made his objections in previous stages of the bill; but the House must be sensible that he had refrained from doing so at the express desire of the right hon. gent. who had requested that the bill might go through a Committee in order to be printed, and that all discussion on the subject should be postponed till the present occasion. He had made the right hon. gent. acquainted with what he thought of the defect of that part of the bill; and he had entertained hopes that, amongst the other parts of it which had undergone alterations and amendments, this part of it might have come in for its share. In this hope he waved making any public opposition to it, from a sincere desire to promote the bill if that defect was removed.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer solemnly assured the House, that nothing could be further from his idea, than that such a mode of proceeding was intended to be pursued. As to the early part of the right hon. gent,'s speech, he assured him he never meant to complain of a want of communication of his sentiments on the subject; but only that he had never considered that it was entertained for a moment in any quarter, that an exemption was a breach of faith, Even now it would be better to leave out that part of the bill which relates to public credit, than to bring forward such an objection on such an occasion, and for such a purpose. He declared solemnly, that in what he had said as to the conduct of the right hon. gent. in bringing forward his motion, he did not mean to convey even a complaint, much less a reproach.

Sir W. Pulteney said, he saw this question in a very different point of view from the right hon. gent. who moved this instruction. The principle of this bill he understood to be this, viz. that every one shall pay a fair and equal proportion of his income; and the question ought to be, whether you will ad

mit any exemptions at all? If you admit one single exemption, you go against the main principle of equality; but he denied that, by allowing any exemptions, the House would be guilty of a breach of faith. He should, therefore, vote against the instruction.

The right hon. the Treasurer of the Navy observed, that the express wish of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) was, that the House should take every precaution in order to prevent any infraction of the public faith. Ho was as anxious to promote such an intention as he believed the right hon. gent. possibly could be, and he had no doubt that such was also the earnest desire of those gentlemen who brought forward or supported the present measure. This was attacking their conduct by a sort of side wind, which he did not think was altogether fair or proper at the present moment. If it was right that a tax upon property should be passed to support the exigencies of the state at the present crisis, he thought there could be no great impropriety in the Bank paying the person who came to receive his dividend all but the tax, and handing over the amount of the tax to the proper officer. For his part, he could not see how, or with what propriety, the imposing of a tax could be termed a breach of faith, when the defence of the country, and the maintenance of its government required that such a sacrifice should be made for the general benefit of the wbole. Under such circumstances, where was the impropriety in taxing A. when it was admitted that B. standing perhaps in different circumstances, but who received the same annual income, or possessed the same amount of capital, would be taxed to the same amount? The right hon. gent. had declared that it was not his desire to embarrass or to thwart the intentions of his Majesty's Government. He gave the right hon. gent. the most ample credit to the full extent of such a declara, tion; but he would put it to the candour of the right hon. gent. whether, at the present crisis, it would not be more considerate and more patriotic to suppress a sentiment like that, the meaning and intention of which was so liable to be perverted in another place? After the observation which bad come from such high and respectable authority, he put it to the feelings and the candour of the right hon. gent. whether it was right to persist in urging the propriety of his motion, after the information he had received of its irregularity from the chair? (No, no, no! from all side of the House.) The right hon. gent. re sumed. It was not his wish to misrepresent the sentiments of any gent. but more partic

cularly those which were delivered from such high authority as that of the person to whom he then alluded. Atall events he could not agree that it would be becoming in that House to be the foremost, except the city of London, in resisting the operation of the bill at such a crisis as the present. In this too it might be observed that, though that corporation, on all other occasions, was considered as almost the leader of all the other corporations of the country, yet it was worthy of remark, that in this instance, not one city, not one county, nor one borough throughout the whole country had followed their example. Some gentlemen had observed, that the present was to be considered as a tax arising from capital only; if that were to be the case, Government and the Country would be deprived of the assistance of a great part of this important measure. There was a very considerable number of persons who, though engaged in trade, yet were not possessed of any capital whatsoever, they were merely dealers on commission, and possessed no property, no article of the trade in which they dealt, and yet there were many of those received an income of more than £150 a year. In fact, taking it in every point of view, he could not see the necessity which existed for the House adopting the terms of the instruction then moved to be given to the Committee; and he thought that the right hon. gent. should have paused before he uttered the expressions to which he then alluded-he lamented that they came from such authority.

Mr. Putt offered a few words in explanation. The right hon. gent. had appealed to his feelings and his candour, and he had said, that "he should have paused before he uttered" the expressions he had made use of respecting that measure. He trusted that neither his candour nor his feelings would ever induce him, or indeed any other member of that House, so far to forget the duty and the independence of a British Member of Parliament, as to refrain from expressing, in plain and unequivocal terms, whatever might be his opinion of any measure which was brought before that House. Some mention had been made of opposition to his Majesty's Ministers, and indeed some gentlemen appeared to him to have contracted such a regular habit of opposition, that they continued the sam course in one administration which they had traversed in another. He was happy to see, however, that there was one gent. at least, who did not remain so inflexible, that some were capable of seeing the necessity there was for their lending their assistance to

his Majesty's Ministers at this important crisis.

Mr. Giles observed, that the clause which had been objected to referred only to the small landholder and the stockholder. The clause, however, would be found to extend to others who fell within the description given only to them. The clause, in fact, went on a general principle to regulate the taxa tion of all capital not arising from industry. He, on the whole, thought the present tax much less objectionable than the late income tax, which an hon. baronet had termed his old friend. He should, therefore, vote against the instruction which had been moved for the committee.

Mr. Wilberforce spoke in favour of the instruction. He contended, that the principle of it was to take care that those who derive their incomes from public funds should stand on as good a footing as those who had incomes of other kinds. There was nothing more dangerous than admitting nice distinctions, when the public faith is concerned. He would, therefore, support the instruc tion.

Mr. H Lascelles thought the case of small proprietors required the attention and con-ideration of the House as much, or more, than any other description of persons. He -paid a high compliment to the character and talents of Mr. Pitt, and said, he should vote for the instruction.

Mr. Tyrwhitt said, all our proceedings had evinced a spirit of unanimity to the present moment; and as the right hon. the Att. General had mentioned that some exemptions were to be made in the committee, he hoped that unanimity would not be interrupted, by persisting in the present motion.

Sir E. Hartop requested to know of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he meant to stand by those exemptions mentioned by the Attorney-General?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer answered, that he meant to propose to the Com mittee an exemption to the extent mentioned by his hon. and learned friend.

Mr. Pitt said, that would not remove his objection; for then it would remain in the proportion of 101. a year to 601. on other income.

On the question being loudly called for, a division took place. Against the instruction, 150, for it, 50. The House then went into a Committee on the bill, Mr Alexander in the chair. The several clauses not objected to were gone through, and the Chairman asked leave to sit again next day.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, July 14.

[MINUTES.-Sir C. Pole moved the order of the day, for the second reading of the, Bill for transferring the Chatham Chest to Greenwich. Read a second time, and committed for the next day. -The London Coal Market Bill the Friendly Societies' Bill the Ii-h Justice of Peace rotection Bill, the Irish Ship Burning Bill, and the Guernsey Corn Bill, were read a third time, passed, and ordered to the Lords.-Sir W. Geary presented a petition from the Debtors confined in Maidstone gaol Ordered to lie on the table The Lord Mayor moved, that the order of the day for the House resolving into a Committee on the City Additional Force Bill should be postponed till the next day. Ortered.-The Volunteer Corps Bill was read a second time, and committed for Monday-The House, in a Committee, went through the Thames Police Bill. Ordered to be reported the next day. Mr. Alexander brought up the reports of the Longitude Bil, and the Grenada Loan Bill. third time the next day Mr. H. Adding ton brought up a Bill for more speedily completing the Militia of Great Britain, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time the next day.

Read a

[INCOME TAX.]-The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the Property and Income Tax Bill. Resolved accordingly.After the Committee had proceeded some length in considering and discussing the bill, paragraph by paragraph,

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The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose and said, Sir, I rise at this time in the hope of shortening the discussion. I have considered the sentiments which were thrown out last night, with regard to exemptions; and I am decidedly of the opinion I was then of, that no breach of good faith could possibly attach on the supposed distinction between income arising from trade and other species of income. I would beg the Committee to advert to the principles of the bill, in considering of the propriety of the alteration about to be submitted to them. It is proposed to make a distinction between the income arising from capital, and that arising from bodily labour and skill. In those cases where the income is produced by a combination of interest, from capital, and that arising from bodily labour, it was my wish to grant indulgence, so that no person should pay more than 51. when his income amounted to less than 150l. The interest

arising from capital is then one which may be fairly fixed with the tax. I mean to propose an exception from the principle of the bill, in so far as regards that sort of income which arises not from bodily labour, but from the learned professions, which is even more extensive than that arising from capi. tal. Of all the cases of hardship to which this tax can apply, I conceive that it is most severe on the income arising from that species of industry. It will not be the policy of Parliament at this time to exclude the income arising from that source, however, from contributing a fair sum towards the present exigencies. here is no one who arrives to great attainments in such professions as I allude to, who has not acquired a considerable proportion of capital; and you are, therefore, to combine the advantages which he thus derives, not from bodily labour, but from the labour of the mind, with the income arising from his capital. Almost every person engaged in trade may carry on that trade by means of representatives; but persons engaged in the learned professions must give in person that advice which is necessary, for no proxy can possibly be admitted. It is absolutely impossible to apply an unobjectionable mode of taxation. I feel the difficulty of extending the exemptions, on account of creating a prodigious addition to the trouble of the Commissioners. It does not appear to me, however, to be unjust or irrational to make a distinction between capital arising from trade yielding a large interest, and that which yields a moderate income. No defalcation of any consequence would arise from the proposed exemption. There is no ground for a charge of violation of faith. It may be a matter of surprise to the Committee, that after considering the subject with great anxiety, I should now feel disposed to think, under the present circumstances, that the public creditors should enjoy some exemption from the present tax. I am inclined to join in the wish which was pretty generally expressed last night, to extend the exemptions to persons deriving their incomes from land to the amount of 1501. and to propose a scale for that purpose. But, Sir, I must fairly own, that I do this with great difficu'ty. It is a difficulty, however, which I am satisfied may be got the better of, at the expense of what is highly important towards the preservation of the bill-the avoiding disclosure and contributing towards the ease of collecting the tax. Sir, this is a moment, when, above all others, I am glad to see reluctance in several gentlemen to acquiesce in the adoption of any measure which may tend to

injure the feelings of any class of individuals. It is most desirable, important, and necessary, to carry with us the opinions and feelings of that very description of persons for whom I have been brought to reconcile my mind to these exemptions. They constitute a very considerable proportion of the yeomanry, whose zeal, spirit, and ardent love of their country, have been manifested in a conspicuous manner during the last ten years, and never more alive to that ardent zeal than at the present moment. I am assured that an expectation was entertained by them, that they would experience the indulgence of the legislature, and that persons of a given income would not be subject to be taxed so fully as others. But having said this, I must acknowledge, that I look forward to some degree of defalcation in the amount of the tax, which will create a necessity, if the war should continue, for Parliament to act up to our avowed principle, of raising supplies within the year. I hope, therefore, that gentlemen will make up their minds to fill up the chasms which may arise from such exemptions. I shall now allude to the schedule which is necessary to introduce this exemption. I should propose to leave out that part of the bill, which begins with schedule B. No. 2, to the end of the 20th page; with the intention of proposing the next day certain clauses which may be introduced when approved of by the Committee, so as to carry the purpose into effect. Though I entertain a conviction that the bill will be got over, it will require very great diligence to prepare the clauses for the continuance of the discussion to-morrow. I apprehend, however, that they will be ready for consideration by that time."

But he

Mr. Pitt said, he had heard the observations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with inexpressible satisfaction. They had freed his mind from those objections which, had the measure been persisted in as it originally stood, would not have prevented him from supporting the bill in general. His objections could not have prevented him supporting the system of raising great part of the supplies within the year. thought the dangers would have counteracted the advantages of the plan. He was most anxious that there should be a probability of every man concurring in the measure in general, and in every part of it. Though in the detail there might be considerable difficulties, he trusted there would be none as to the fundamental principles. He trusted the Committee would proceed with minds actuated by a desire to render the bill as perfect as possible. Understanding

that the point which formed the basis of his objection was given up, he was not anxious to tread over the controversy, or to advert to the motives which might have produced the changes. He would not quarrel because his arguments might not have been approved of; he was perfectly satisfied that the conclusion of them had been adopted He observed, that as far as the exemptions were applied to landed and funded property, as well as other sources of income, there could be no difficulty in adopting the bill without striking out the schedules.

The Attorney General said, as it was intended to carry the exemptions to every description of income, it would be more convenient to adopt a general provision that should extend to them.

Dr. Laurence thought the mode of making the alteration in the bill should be left to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was of opinion the Chancellor of the Exchequer had acted wisely and politically, in giving way in favour of that bold peasantry, which, once extinguished, never could be supplied. He could not pledge himself to vote for any tax that might be brought forward to supply the defalcation occasioned by the exemptions, but he was sure he should ever be disposed to vote for taxes to meet the exigency of the country.

Mr. Buxton suggested there should be exemptions in favour of the landed interest for repairs.

Mr. Calcraft opposed this suggestion. He, as a land-holder, could not object to the tax, however hard it might press upon him.

Mr. Rose suggested that the exemptions should be extended to clergymen who did duty at several churches in the same parish, and were consequently obliged to keep a

curate.

Lord Hawkesbury said, the evil of this bill, as well as of the former one, arose from the necessity of exemptions. He thought a tax lower in amount, without any exemptions, would be more desirable; for by adopting them a rule was laid down that must be arbitrary. Whether the line was drawn at 1001. or 2001. it was obvious a case could be stated, where a person with 1001. a year was, in fact, richer than another with 2001. The less the exemptions were multiplied, the more desirable the tax would be. Agreeing with his right hon. friend as to extending the exemptions, he yet cautioned the House against carrying them further, except in cases of necessity. If they did, they would have all the difficulties of the tax without their money's worth. It