which might be a trifle to a rich one. The consequences might also be nationally very mischievous. Supposing that only 100 persons should be prevailed upon or induced to give such legacies in land, the consequences must be, that 500 acres of perhaps the finest land in the country would be taken away from agriculture, or other useful purposes, for ever; and, contrary to the laws and constitution of England, that property would never more be free or alienable.

The House then divided on the question for the Speaker's leaving the chair, when the numbers were, ayes 44, noes 20, majority 15.-The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the bill.

Mr. Moore moved an amendment to one of the clauses, that instead of the will not being valid, unless made three months previous to the death of the testator, the words twelve months should be substituted.

The Solicitor General thought that any portion of land devised and become inalien able, in consequence of this measure, must necessarily be so small as to be exceedingly trifling to the public. He considered the object of the bill to be, to oblige the persons to whom the trust should be conveyed, to employ it beneficially; for a man may bequeath his money for trusts which never could answer any useful purpose.-The amendment was rejected without a division, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday.

[THE IRISH LOAN ] Mr. Corry, in consequence of the notice he had given of his intention to lay before the House that day the terms of the Irish loan, thought it right to take this opportunity of acquainting them, that he should have no occasion to submit for their approbation, any loan for that country in the present year. Το account for the failure of the loan, he had to inform them of the nature of bidding. The party who came forward in Ireland offered no more than 781. 5s. for 100l. stock, which would yield, besides the bonus, &c. an interest to the bidder of 61. 9s. 9d. whereas in the last loan, made in England, it was no more than 51. 2s. 1od. a difference so enormous, that he could not for a moment consent to it. He had also to observe, that for some time previous to the bidding, the Irish funds experienced very considerable fluctuations. He did not attribute that to influence or machinatious, but wished to observe, that on the Saturday, which was the day of bidding for the Irish five per cents. after some fluctuation, left off at Sól. and a fraction, and after the

bidding was over, and the other rejected, opened at gol. on the Monday. There was also on the same day a proportionate rise in 5 and half per cents. which were down to 7cl. on Saturday. The House must therefore be aware that such an offer, and there was but one bidder, must have been indignantly rejected; nor was it without regret that he found himself compelled by his duty to make a statement so destitute of that fair and honourable intercourse which ought always to subsist between the government and the monied interest, and so discreditable an advantage attempted to be taken of what was supposed to be a matter of necessity in the state. The House, however, must be aware that he was sufficiently careful to have taken what now turned out to be a necessary precaution, in order to protect the state from the artifices of those who had the presumption to offer such terms; by a bill for raising a million bills for the serIrish treasury upon vice of the year, the report of which he now moved to be brought up.

Mr. Alexander then brought up the report of the bill, which was agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

Mr. Johnstone observed, that from what had appeared on former experience, the difficulty of raising the loan in Ireland upon terms agreeable to government, might have been easily foreseen; and therefore he thought the present instance would afford a lesson to those who bid for the loan in this country, under the idea that it would be only twelve millions, when in reality it now turns out to be fourteen. He therefore considered the proposition for raising two millions in Ireland, now found to be impracticable, as only a disguise to keep so much of the general loan out of view, until the first part was disposed of. He thought, therefore, the more candid way would have been, in the first instance, to open the bidding for the whole loan in this country.

Mr. Corry assured the hon. member it was really and sincerely the intention to have raised the loan in Ireland, had it turned out to be practicable upon terms at all admissi ble; and he had purposely chosen to try Ire land first upon the principle so strongly urged last year by a gentleman not now in his place, and one of the representatives for that country (Mr. Foster), who laid it down as an axiom, that the raising of loans in this country for the use of the government in Ireland, was a ruinous practice for that country, as it would effect a great drain of

cash from Ireland annually to pay the interest to the holders of Irish stock in England. But, having tried the experiment without success, no charges would rest against him upon the ground that was so alleged to be impolitic. He was far, however from thinking, notwithstanding his ill success in the present instance, that the Irish market should not be tried from time to time in raising the loan for the year.

Mr. Alexander then brought up the report, which was agreed to; and Mr. Corry moved an amendment agreeably to his proposition, which was adopted, and the bill ordered to be engrossed, and read the third time the next day.

[WEST-INDIA COLONIES.]-Mr. Barham said, he held in his hand a petition, on the subject of which he was proceeding to expatiate; when

The Chancellor of the Exchequer requested that he would postpone doing so till some future day, as there was business of very great importance already before the House, which it was extremely desirable to expedite as much as possible.

Mr. Barbam acceded to the request, and presented the petition, which, on being read by the clerk, turned out to be on the part of the merchants, planters, and traders of the West-India colonies, stating, that they had been for many years sustaining great loss, (as they were obliged to send all their goods to this country exclusively, and were thereby deprived of the benefit of other markets) in consequence of the enormous duties laid upon sugars and other articles of their produce, without any regard to their staple produce; or that this, with other circumstances, did not allow them a profit by any means proportionate to the greatness and extent of their capitals; and praying for relief.

The petition was ordered to lie on the table, and Mr. Barham gave notice, that he would make a motion on the subject of it on Tuesday next.

[PROPERTY AND INCOME TAX-The House resolved into a Committee, to resume the consideration of the bill for imposing a duty on real and personal property.—When the clause which requires .hat the occupiers of land shall pay at the rate of gd. in the pound on their rent was read,

Mr. Pitt observed, that the principle now admitted on all bands was, that every person should pay at the rate of is. out of every 20s. of his income. It appeared then, that when the bill proposed to take gd. per pound on the tenants, it was assumed that that would amount to the same sum as one

shilling in the pound on his profits; or in other words, it was calculated that his annual profits wete equal to 3-4ths of his rent. The bill, however, ought to declare the ground on which this estimation was taken, in order that the principle might be rendered manifest. The rent alone, however, could not shew the value of the tenant's profits; for of two farms producing the same average crop, one might pay a much higher rent to the landlord on account of its paying less or no tythes and poor rates. In such a case the estimation of the profits by the rent would be very unfair. The bill proposed, very justly, that the tenant in Scotland should pay six pence in the pound, because there being no poor-rates or tythes in that country, the landlord receives a higher rent than in England. As it was presumed by the bill that the English tenant's profits are equal to three-fourths of his rent, so it was supposed that the Scotch tenant's profits were equal to one-half of his rent. The principle of the estimation, however, ought to be declared, that it might not appear there was a boon given to Scotland where none was intended. A bet

ter criterion of the profits of the farmer ought also to be adopted, and he believed that would be found in the aggregate of the rent, tythes, and poor-rates.

Colonel Wood thought there were considerable difficulties in the way of the last suggestion of the right hon. gent. In his opinion, it would be better to adhere altogether to the calculation on the rack rent, or to leave the matter to the discretion of the

assessor.

Mr. Pitt considered, that although an absolute equality might be impracticable, though a perfect system could not be deemed attainable, that still the House was not, on that account, to debar itself from approaching as nearly as it possibly could to such a perfection. He pointed out the inequalities in the operation of the act, as at present framed, in taking rent as the criterion of the income of a farmer. He instanced the case of two farms adjacent to each other one of which might be extraparochial and tythe-free, and the other liable to both outgoings, yet paying both the same rent. Could it be said that in such a case the criterion of the present bill would be just and effectual for the purposes of a tax upon income? He then went through the observations of the Attorney General, on whose speech the right hon. gent. had paid very close attention to country affairs, as his excursions into the country had not perhaps been so frequent as he (Mr. Pitt)

could have wished for the learned gentleman's advantage, and probably he had chiefly drawn his arguments on the subject from the cases made out in his briefs.

Mr. Sturt approved of the clause as it stood. Speaking of farmers in general, he observed, that in Sussex, where he had the honour of residing a considerable part of the year, a farmer generally calculated on making four rents : one for his landlord, one for wear and tear, &c. one for the interest of his capital, and one for his support.

Mr. Dent made some humorous remarks on the Sussex farmers, and their proximity to the sea coast; but was averse to the clause.

Mr. Windham considered, that it was the duty of the House, if perfect accuracy could not be attained, to approach as near to it as they possibly could.

Mr. W. Smith said, the only question. before the Committee was this: which is the best criterion for ascertaining the farmer's income? In some places poorrates differed exceedingly, and therefore one criterion of the nature described could not be a fair one for each place. He thought it no such difficult matter to estimate the income and outgoings of the farmer, more than the tradesman. In many cases indeed it would, upon experiment, be found to be much less so. There were many farmers, who kept their accounts as carefully and correctly as those in other businesses. As to the statement respecting the Sussex farmers, he thought it rather went to shew the propriety of taxing them higher. It had been said great difficulty would arise from the taking tythes in different ways: some, for instance, were taken in kind. But in that case the amount taken is generally greater, and the rent paid generally less. Upon the whole, after a perspicuous view of the subject, he supported the ideas of the right hon. gent. under the gallery (Mr. Pitt).

The Attorney-General explained at some length, and defended his former statements. He was always disposed to listen with peculiar attention and respect to whatever fell from such high authority as that of his right hon. friend under the gallery behind him, but in this instance he must yet differ. Possibly his own understanding might not be sufficiently enlightened to take so clear and proper a view of the subject as his right hon. friend; but whether he had a right or wrong view of it, his right hon. friend had a great advantage over him in the man

ner of recommending his opinions to the house.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer felt no degree of surprise at an hon. gent. opposite to him (Mr. Wilberforce) objecting to the clause, as the other mode now recom. mended was, he recollected, in the former income bill actually recommended by that hon. gent. himself. He was ready to main tain that the finances in many, nay, in most instances did, under the last income tax, pay less to government than under the ope ration of the augmentation of the assessed taxes. Administration had not ventured upon the criterion now proposed without the most zealous endeavours to acquire the best knowledge on this subject, and fre quent consultations with the best informed persons. As to the four rents mentioned, he remembered, that a late great and highly distinguished character, who turned his attention so clearly to every thing connected with the best interests of the country, had given it as his opinion that a farmer ought to have six or seven rents to enable him to acquire what is called a living profit: but he had never heard it stated for many years, that less than four years rents can be taken as a fair proportion for farming advantage ously. Upon these and a variety of other grounds touched on by the right hon. gent. he concluded by declaring his firm belief that this was the fairest and best criterion on the whole, for a measure which never could be free from objections, and as such be was disposed and determined to give it his

support.

Dr. Laurence argued at some length against the clause, and explained the sentiments of Mr. Burke.

Mr. Pitt recapitulated many of his arguments, and observed, with respect to what had been advanced as to the poor-rates, as being of sufficient notoriety to constitute a criterion, that they were most accurately ascertainable, and then the question would be, whether, having this additional criterion in our power, we should proceed to make an estimate without it. As to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had advanced relative to tythes, it amounted only to this, that as perfection in that criterion could not be obtained, we were not to avail ourselves of it at all, though in most cases of considerable use. This, to use an obvious parellel, was, as if in the construction of a time-piece, we could not prevent the variation of the pendulum, we should use no pendulum at all; or, if because we could not prevent the variation of the needle, we should prevail on our mariners to lay it aside

altogether. It was obvious, however, as to tythes, that the clergy must pay the tax in proportion to them; he therefore saw no difficulty in ascertaining their amount with adequate certainty. So, with respect to the poor-rates, notwithstanding all that had been said as to the difficulty of ascertaining them, nothing could be more certain than that they must be known to the parochial officers by whom they were levied. The amended income too certainly produced less under the amended criterion; but that was not owing to any practicable defect of the plan, but because the proportion of the rate was taken too low. This must have been the case, or in the former mode they must have paid too much, or the amended criterion was demonstrably the truest. It is proposed to apply the rate to the rent alone. He contended, however, that as the value of a farm can alone be estimated by its outgoings, of which rent only formed a part, it was better to apply the rate, say three-fourths, to the aggregate of rent, tythe, and poor rates, which would best show the utmost capacity of the land, and probable interest of the tenant. This was a principle of such indisputable justice, that he should be obliged to persist in it, and should be sorry to find government, in a moment like this, when the utmost zeal and unanimity should be called forth, capable of opposing it.

Sir IV. Pulteney conceived rent the best criterion of value, as it was most considered, and best understood by farmers.

Sir F. Baring was for increasing the proportion of the farmers by the aggregate rate. He was convinced they could bear it. Many of them, during last war, had made great fortunes.

Mr. G. Vansittart thought the case quoted by Mr. Pitt, as to the difference of rent from one to two hundred a year, on account of one paying the tythes and poor-rates, unfounded in fact; farmers, he said, never took tythes or poor rates into consideration when they took their farms.

Mr. W. Smith could not agree to this; he was acquainted with a town, even in which the rents were professedly low, on account of the great amount of poor-rates. This was, in fact, the ground on which the present bill proceeded in making the rate lower for Scotland. It assured us, as there were no tythes or poor-rates in that country, the rents must necessarily be higher.

Mr. N. Vansittart objected to the rate on the aggregate, conceiving it would diminish the amount of the tax.

Mr. Pitt said this could not be. The bill proposed to take on three-fourths of the

rent.

Now his proposition took on the rent and also the account of tythes and poor-rates. That it would therefore produce more instead of less was something as like certainty as he could conceive.

The Attorney-General admitted that the aggregate rate would certainly increase the amount of the tax, but as they already took it on a rack rent, this mode might produce more than they meant to take.

Mr. Pitt observed, that this was new shaping the argument. All objections were at first confined to the effect of diminishing the tax; and when he had answered them, the learned gent. arraigned the justice of his suggestion, and contended it would produce too much. As, however, it was the most perfect criterion, the result would be most consonant to the purposes of the bill.

Mr. Bragge did not think it sufficiently proved that the defect complained of in the amount of a similar plan, under the amended income act, proceeded from a defective rate, or too great complexity of the plan.

Mr. Cowen thought rent, in some cases, a very imperfect criterion of profit, as in the cases of accommodation ground near large

taking the poor-rates as a criterion. It seemed to be agreed, that this method was very ancertain, and ought only to be resorted to in case of necessity.-Afier some farther conversation and immaterial amendments, Mr. Alexander reported progress.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Saturday, July 16.

[MINUTES]-An account was presented of the rates of freightage paid by the East Indra Company, pursuant to an order of the 11th instant.The Caledonian Canal Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time on Monday.-Sir W. Scott brought up a bill for encouraging the residence of stipendiary curates on their cures. Read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday, and to be printed.-The Thames Police Bill was passed.-The Longitude Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday.--The Militia Amendment Bill was committed. A clause was added, declaring that substitutes of the height of five feet two inches should be accepted. The report was ordered to be received on Monday.

[MAGISTRATES INDEMNITY.]-Lord Archibald Hamilton hoped, that previously to the question being put, he might be indulged in asking a question, the answer to which might save some future trouble. What he wished to know was, whether, consistently with parliamentary order, there would now be an opportunity of revising the provisions of the magistrates indemnity bill? He considered it as introducing quite a new principle in the laws, which he conceived to require more discussion before it ought to be adopted, if adopted at all.

The Attorney General replied, that understanding the noble lord, and others, entertained some objections to the bill, he had abstained from moving the order for its third reading, lest it should produce a discussion which might interfere with the other important business of the day. However, considering the present advanced stage of the bill, he believed there was no other way in which any

alleviation could be made in it, except by holding a conference with the lords. As it was highly necessary that the bill should proceed without delay, he should move the third reading of it, should any opportunity occur in the course of the day, either by the property bill being deferred on account of a ihin attendance, or from any other cause which might admit of the intended discussion But if even the objections alluded to should be supported on a better foundation

than he conceived them to have, they did not appear to him of sufficient moment to defer a bill of so much urgency. He believed, however, that on more mature consideration, the noble lord would be convinced that the objections proceeded only from a misconcep tion of the law, and that so far from intro. ducing any new principle, the bill was per fectly consistent with every old one. The present bill would only save trouble and expense, and give to magistrates and consta bles that indemnity which the law would af ford. A magistrate may be induced from inadvertence, misinformation, or false charges, to issue his warrant, and a constable of course to execute it, upon a person quite innocent of the offence. This man had his remedy at law, and might bring his action against both or either of them for false imprisonment, but if he could not prove that the proceedings were malicious, he could not possibly succeed; and the main purport of this bill was to prevent such litigious and vexatious actions, as it protected no person who misconducted himself wilfully or with malice.

The Speaker put an end to any further conversation on this subject, by observing, that there was no question before the House.

[PROPERTY AND INCOME TAX.]-The House having resolved itself into a Committee on this bill, the Chancellor of the Exche quer stated, that he was particularly desirous every clause should receive the most minute attention and discussion. He also informed the House, that before their final decision was asked on the bill, it should again be printed.

The Committee then proceeded to the consideration of the bill, and several very important alterations were made.---The clause for empowering surveyors to examine property, in order to estimate its value, was so amended as to do away the power of entering dwelling houses, which was originally given by the bill,-All the clauses relative to the mode of collecting the tax at the Bank were struck out, in consequence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer declaring it to be his intention to substitute others in their stead, when the Committee should have gone through the bill. He stated, that upon consideration it had been thought advisable not to require that the portion of the tax to be paid by funded property should be stopped out of the dividends at the Bank. It would, therefore, be the object of the new clauses to direct that the stockholder's return should be made in the same manner as those of other persons: if, however, after