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to go down and meet the price of the outsiders, even at a dead loss so long as we can do so, because you can not store this stuff. If it is ripe now, it has got to be sold now, and if it is not sold now 90 per cent of the growers will be bankrupt.

Mr. HILL. I fully agree with you in a good many respects, but it is not only the tragedy with regard to the citrus fruits with which we are confronted. Standing right where you are standing now, a week ago a gentleman made the same argument, saying that it is a tragedy for the iron and steel industry. The sugar men from Louisiana are making the same claim. The citrus fruits people from California are making the same claim, and they all base it on the quotation which you read from the Democratic platform, which says "We favor the ultimate attainment of the principles we advocate by legislation which will not injure or destroy any legitimate industry.' Have you heard the definition which has been given by this committee of the word "legitimate" in that connection?

Mr. TEMPLE. No, sir; I would not presume to ask this committee to give me any definition. I presumed to ask the committee where they stood on the point concerning which I read from this document as being quoted from Mr. Underwood. I will say, in answer to your other questions before you ask them, as I suppose you will ask them, that I will stand on my original proposition as laid down here, as applied to every proposition in that connection.

Mr. HILL. I do not want to ask you your politics. I am a confirmed believer in protection, measured by the difference in cost, of production at home and abroad, but the definition which has been given of the word "legitimate" has no relation whatever to the product or to prices, but purely to an industry which is on a sound economic basis, and a great authority has said that that is one which is not sustained by a tax, so that under that authority and under that definition your industry is not a legitimate industry because it is sustained by a tax. Now, would you approve of that solution of the question, with the full understanding of the word "legitimate," as you may read it here in the very beginning of the Democratic platform on the tariff question:

We recognize that our system of tariff taxation is intimately connected with the business of the country, and we favor the ultimate attainment of the principles we advocate by legislation that will not injure or destroy legitimate industry.

That is in the very beginning of the tariff plank in the Democratic platform.

Mr. TEMPLE. That is right. from the force of what I read.

There is nothing in that to take away

Gentlemen of the committee, I am not going to take up any more of your time this late. I will say to you that I would not presume to address this committee and ask you to put a tariff on these products if I did not think they needed it and were entitled to it on your platform, and if you will just read page 10 and the following two pages of my brief in regard to the Florida citrus industry, I am sure you will be convinced of the justice of our claim.

We believe that very shortly we can be in a position where we can do with half the tariff, not to give you revenue, because as I said to you before, you will never get revenue out of the citrus industry as long as the present citrus development in this country continues, but

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we can stand taking off half the tariff and later all of it, without any wrecking of the industry. When we get our groves in better condition, in as good condition as they have them in Spain where, owing to the older condition of their trees, they can produce 300 boxes to the acre on the average; when we get our groves in such good condition with the addition of our more skillful management, I believe we can bid defiance to the world at the gates of New York without any tariff.

Mr. HARRISON. Do you not think the fact that the exports are 30 times the amount of importations would indicate that we have already reached that point?

Mr. TEMPLE. I do not think so, for the reason that we export almost entirely to Canada, and for the reason that Mr. Skinner tried to tell you that they have no direct steamship lines from Valencia to Canada and can not lay the stuff in there, and when it does come it is only spasmodically sent there now and then, so that we never have sold a box in Canada from Florida, except in Toronto, to my knowledge.

Mr. HARRISON. The gentleman who preceded you said they had a cheaper freight rate from Spain.

Mr. TEMPLE. When they have a boat going. This business is all done on tramp steamers.

Mr. HARRISON. What about these shipments to Australia?

Mr. TEMPLE. Mr. Harrison, Florida is engaged in a good many land deals at the present time, but we have never had to complain in Florida of the land boosters and the local newspapers evolving wonderful announcements as to marvelous happenings affecting their local enterprises any more than has always been the case in California, of which I am inclined to think the newspaper statement read by you is a sample.

Mr. HARRISON. I think there is something in what you say, but that does not dispose of the fact that there are also great quantities shipped to Australia.

Mr. TEMPLE. Do you suppose they really did that?

Mr. HARRISON. I have no reason to doubt it. I believe what I read in the Treasury reports, that the exports from the United States are 30 times the imports.

Mr. TEMPLE. I will tell you another thing. That we have shipped to Canada in the last year

Mr. HARRISON. You have exported $3,000,000 worth, and you have imported $100,000 worth.

Mr. TEMPLE. In the last two years we have only exported 9,000 boxes.

Mr. HARRISON. Where did the rest of the $3,000,000 worth come from?

Mr. TEMPLE. I do not know. A great deal is sent from California to Canada out through the Northwest. We can not touch the northwestern part of Canada. California has that all her own way, and she has practically no competition up there.

Mr. HARRISON. Have you ever been in the Canadian Northwest ? Mr. TEMPLE. Yes; I have been the full length of the Canadian Pacific.

Mr. HARRISON. You know that you could travel sometimes as much as 40 miles and never see a human being?

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Mr. TEMPLE. On the other hand, $3,000,000 worth do not mean a great deal, when you consider a community of 20,000 people will eat a carload of oranges a week, and a car of oranges is worth from $600 to $800.

TESTIMONY OF LORENZO GEORGE BRICE, M. L. A., REPRESENTING THE BAHAMA ISLANDS, NASSAU, BAHAMAS.

The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Please give your full name to the stenographer for the record, Mr. Brice.

Mr. BRICE. I would just like to say, sir, that, as shown on the list of names of witnesses, that there are only three of us-two from the British West Indian Islands. I happen to be one, and my friends Outerbridge and Sterling the others."

I want to thank the committee and the chairman for the privilege they have extended to us to appear here.

Honorable chairman and honorable members of the Ways and Means Committee, United States House of Representatives: I have been duly appointed by his excellency George B. Haddon Smith, governor of Bahama Islands, to represent that colony before your honorable committee in connection with your labors in preparing for submission to the honorable House of Representatives a new tariff act to supersede that passed in 1909, and have the honor to lay before you for whatever consideration you care to give them the following facts:

The Bahama Islands compose a colony of the British Empire and are self-governing. They lie off the southeast coast of the State of Florida, some of them not more than 40 miles from the American mainland. The people of the colony number about 55,000, most of whom depend upon the sponge, pineapple, orange, grapefruit, and salt industries. The commerce of the colony is conducted almost wholly with the United States, which nation is treated in regard to tariff duties on exactly the same terms as the United Kingdom, Canada, and the British West Indian colonies. The only tariff duties levied are those necessary for the general upkeep of the colony.

At present the Bahama Islands Government subsidizes two American steamship lines touching at Nassau, New Providence, the capital and principal port. Concessions have been granted by the Government to the American companies and American capital invested in the industries of the Bahama Islands aggregate from $3,000,000 to $4,000,000.

The Bahama Islands buy from the United States articles aggregating in value more than $1,104,000 annually. This foreign trade of the United States with the Bahama Islands is gradually increasing yearly. American exporters supply about seven-eighths of the import trade of the colony.

In return the United States buys from the Bahama Islands products aggregating in value $500,000 annually. This trade is composed principally of sponges, pineapples-raw and preserved grapefruit, oranges, and salt.

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The duties levied by the United States under the Payne-Aldrich tariff act of 1909 amount almost to a prohibition of the export of these products from the Bahama Islands to the United States. Prices of these articles, we feel sure, will be somewhat lowered to consumers in the United States should the American Government abolish the present excessive duties on these products or if they should be reduced to some extent, and thereby the increased cost of living, which at present is a matter of concern with your people, would be reduced to articles entering into the daily lives of your people.

In view of the reasons heretofore mentioned, the colony most earnestly prays that your honorable committee will give due and careful consideration to the above-named items in your work of tariff revision and so reduce or abolish or reduce the present high rates of duty on the articles enumerated, that the trade relations with the United States, established firmly for nearly a century, may rapidly increase in volume to the mutual benefit of the people of each.

The investment of American capital in the Bahama Islands, the proximity of the islands to the United States, and the close business associations which have existed for such a length of time between the two countries are advanced as other reasons for asking your careful consideration.

I would just like to say, Mr. Chairman, that between 13 and 15 years ago, sir, the Bahama Islands were practically the home of the citrus-fruit industries; that is, I refer to oranges and grape fruits, not lemons; also, sir, of pineapples. We used to charter American schooners from 12 t 15 in a season to come over to the Southern States and Baltimore and bring over our fruit. We used to charter between 20 and 25 schooners for three months in the year, bringing pineapples over from the Bahamas to Baltimore and New York. To-day all of those industries are practically nil. We can not export grapefruit or oranges, while we raise the finest in the world, The duty absolutely kills us. We have to get crates from this country, sir; we have to pay the freight rates of the steamers that ply between here and there, sir, on all our foodstuffs. Probably it might interest you, just to give you an idea-I have been listening to a good many of the arguments from an export point of view of the United States, and I think the foreign countries also contribute a good deal to the upkeep of the farmers. A good deal has been said about the agricultural parts of this country raising grapefruits and oranges, sir, but those colonies order all their goods, especially their foodstuffs, from the United States; although we are small we are numerous, and it certainly must amount to a good deal of revenue and help the farmers in those northern districts.

This is the bulk of the stuff that we order principally from the United States: Automobiles, bicycles, butter, cattle, cement, corn, corn meal, coal, electrical appliances, fertilizers, flour, gasoline, hay, oats and bran, ice, lard, lumber, machinery, meats fresh and salt, oil, kerosene, potatoes, railroad stock, rope and canvas, soap, sugar, tea, earthenware, glassware, hardware, tinware, preserved meats and fish, textile fabrics.

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We have been

Sir, it is just a question of trade and commerce. dealing with you, sir; in fact, we do not know how to deal with any other colony. It has been handed down to us long before your Civil War, and we absolutely deal with you, irrespective of what duties you put on in the United States. We have always done that; you have gradually shut off our industries. We buy your goods. We have to pay in kind, sir. If you drive us from your doors, why, probably in years to come we might be able to go across to the Canadian border, but that does not suit the Bahamas. And it does not suit Bermuda. It might suit some of the other West Indian islands, but. we lie right in between this great continent, and I hope that we do not in vain expect to be heard. We are simply customers of the United States, and we have to pay in kind. The United States needs what we produce, and we have got to buy from the United States.

PROTESTS AGAINST REDUCTION OF DUTY ON CITRUS FRUITS.

Hon. JOHN LAMB,

RICHMOND, VA., January 16, 1913.

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. DEAR SIR: I notice from the papers there will be a public hearing by the Ways and Means Committee of the lower House on January 20 for the purpose of considering the removal or material reduction of the tariff duties on citrus fruit.

I desire to call your special attention to the citrus-fruit industry in this country, and to say that from practical experience as a grower and shipper of citrus fruit from Florida any material reduction in the tariff on citrus fruits means the destruction of the industry in this country.

I have owned two groves in Florida during the past four years in one of the best citrus-fruit sections in the State. These groves are among the very best in the State, have been carefully cultivated and cared for, and yet they have not been profitable. Although Florida has been growing citrus fruit for many years, it must be remembered that the destructive freeze of 1895 and 1896 practically wiped out the industry, and until the past three or four years there has been no systematic plan of marketing the fruit, which has militated very much against the business.

During the past few years millions of dollars have been invested in the citrus-fruit business in Florida and the growing and marketing of the fruit has made great advancement. The growers now believe they are on the road to success, but they can not stand a reduction of prices at present, and should have protection until better systems of cultivation, better varieties, and better plans for the marketing and distribution of the fruit has been thoroughly established.

It must be remembered, that Florida and southern California are the only sections in our country in which citrus fruit can be grown. The land in Florida is very poor, requiring much fertilization, and years of toil and application are required before a grove will produce profitable crops of oranges or grapefruit.

Millions of dollars have been invested in the industry in Florida during the past decade, and with proper encouragement Florida and California can supply our entire country. With oranges selling for 75 cents to $1 per box, and grapefruit at $2 to $2.25 per box, it certainly can not be shown that the growers are making but little, if any

money.

Citrus-fruit growing is the leading industry of Florida, and in many sections practically the only industry, and in my opinion it would be very unfortunate not only for the growers but for the consumers as well to have the business in this country destroyed or materially injured by foreign competition at present.

Trusting you will agree with me and use your best efforts to prevent any reduction cf the tariff on citrus fruit imported into this country, and with high personal regards, I remain,

Very truly, yours,

Respectfully referred to Committee on Ways and Means.

W. E. HARRIS.

JOHN LAMB.