Our judgment was subsequently vindicated, but we do not wish to be put in that position again, gentlemen.

In the name of national security, on behalf of the producers of the strategic metals in the United States, in dollar volume negligible but in their contribution to our life and to our security indispensable, I ask you gentlemen to seriously consider once again the proposition of not delegating your authority to anybody to barter with respect to the tariff on these metals.

I thank you very much indeed.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Long, I wonder if I could have the privilege of shaking your hand before you take the plane.

Mr. LONG. I would be most happy to be so honored, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, sir. So would I, if you would just come forward, because that is a remarkable statement, and to the point. I want to tell you, when I meet a good tariff man from your State, sir, I want to know him and know him well. [Laughter.] Mr. LONG. I will also tell you, sir, that the country is to be congratulated that there are a lot more at home like me.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Are there any questions?

Mr. SIMPSON. I have a couple, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Long, of course the agreements to which you have referred have been made, some of them, many years ago, others in recent years. They are in effect, regardless of what this committee may do with respect to this particular bill. The agreement is made and is operating. The best you could hope for under the provisions of the bill now before the committee would be to make easier the possibility of getting relief under the escape clause in the present law as amended by this bill, in the event this bill should provide additional means of securing relief under the escape clause or under the law as it is today.

If you got favorable action thereunder, would the increased permissible rate under that clause give you the benefit which would permit your industry to continue operating?

Mr. LONG. I do not know how much increase that would be, Mr. Simpson.

Mr. SIMPSON. I do not know how much it has been cut, but it would permit the rate to go back to the rate from which the cut was made.

Mr. LONG. In the particular instance of tungsten, that cut was automatically restored by the abrogation of the treaty with China when that country went communistic. So the 25-percent cut in respect of tungsten was automatically restored. Tungsten carries a tariff of approximately $8. It is $7.91-and-some-fraction cents, figured on the amount of contained tungsten in a unit.

That tariff was enacted in 1930. That tariff, in the light of today's costs and today's differentials, would be totally inadequate to provide the protection that the tungsten industry, in my judgment, needs; but it would also be disastrous, indeed, if that were to be further reduced.

Mr. SIMPSON. I understand. That is what I was afraid was the condition.

Mr. LONG. In manganese, which comes nearer to your thing, it would be extremely helpful. Manganese was cut not only once, but cut again. The tariff on manganese used to be 1 cent a pound on the

contained metal, which was $22.40 on a ton of metal. It was cut half in two under one negotiation; then was again cut half in two. So what you have left is a negligible one-quarter of a cent a pound.

Under the concept to which you refer, that, as I understand it, could be restored to the original, and that would be extremely helpful. Mr. SIMPSON. Under the law as it is today, plus the amendments as in this bill, it could be restored to the original rate. Of course, manganese is one of those minerals which we are endeavoring to increase in production here at home.

Mr. LONG. That is true, sir.

Mr. SIMPSON. You must have lost a lot of confidence in these negotiators for the State Department, in the face of Mr. Clayton's statement of assurances to the industry, and of the unanimous finding of the Committee on Reciprocity Information, and you must have been amazed to find that the negotiators who went overseas disregarded all that and sold your industry down the river.

Mr. LONG. We are accustomed to the knockdowns of fate, but I will have to admit we were rather surprised at that action. It was unthinkable.

Mr. SIMPSON. You are warning the committee not to let that happen again?

Mr. LONG. Yes, and I am asking you not to give anybody the power to do that to us again. Exclude us from that operation.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Mr. LONG. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The next witness is Mr. W. Roy Kopp, attorney at law, Platteville, Wis., representing the Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa zinc and lead producers.

If you will give your name to the reporter and the capacity in which you appear, please.

STATEMENT OF ROY KOPP, ATTORNEY AT LAW, PLATTEVILLE, WIS., REPRESENTING THE WISCONSIN, ILLINOIS, AND IOWA ZINC AND LEAD PRODUCERS

Mr. KOPP. My name is W. Roy Kopp, of Platteville, Wis., and I appear in behalf of the Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa lead and zinc producers.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I feel privileged to have an opportunity to appear before this committee in connection with the hearings covering H. R. 4294. You have been and no doubt will be furnished detailed statistics covering the lead and zinc needs of the Nation normally and in time of war. You will have available complete data covering unemployment from the closing of our lead and zinc mines, the number already closed, the drop in domestic production already experienced and full information on the foreign imports to date and the outlook for the future. I do not propose to make a statistical presentation. Rather, I will present the situation in which the lead and zinc miners of southwestern Wisconsin, northwestern Illinois, and northeastern Iowa find themselves at the present time. This area of mining activity is known as the Wisconsin-IllinoisIowa district.

I appear before this committee not as the agent or attorney for the so-called vested interests, but rather in behalf of the mining in

dustry and the hundreds of individual miners in my section of the country. It is indeed a real privilege of the American citizen to be able to present, simply as a citizen, his views on any matter affecting his interests and the welfare of his neighbors to the Congress of the United States.

For my brief remarks I draw first on my personal knowledge as a lifelong resident of southwestern Wisconsin, and upon my experience as a smalltown lawyer in working with and for miners and their families for a period of some 25 years.

I draw secondly for the information which I wish to present to this committee, upon the information which I have obtained from various small mining companies and operators with whom I have had contact as an attorney, and in other capacities.

Finally, I have had the opportunity to obtain certain pertinent data from a number of larger mining companies which also operate in our district, and for a number of which I have in the past acted as counsel.

Any true understanding of the present problems of the Wisconsin miner, and those similarly situated in the adjoining States, would be impossible without a brief review of his experiences during the years. It must be remembered at the outset, regardless of what may be said today as to the needs of the Nation in time of future emergency—and as to our ability to supply those needs regardless of whether our zinc and lead mines are operating or are closed-that heretofore the Government has several times found it necessary to call upon every mine in the country to supply the needs of the national economy in time of war and in time of preparation for war.

During World War I, the miners of my district were called upon to go all out to open up every mine that could become a producer and to undertake an extensive program of exploration in an effort to locate additional deposits. In Wisconsin lead and zinc are ordinarily found together, so what I am saying at this point is applicable equally to the production of each metal.

The Government during World War I offered financial assistance to the mine operator to enable him to step up production. The result was a tremendous increase in the volume of lead and zinc concentrates shipped out of our district and thus made available for our war needs. More recently, and during World War II, the so-called premiumprice plan was inaugurated. Ceilings were placed on lead and zinc markets. Every mine was dealt with on a tailor-made basis. Production costs, grades of ore, and volume were the factors which determined the premium payment to which each mining venture was entitled-in order to maintain production at 100-percent capacity, and with a fair and reasonable return to the operator. Many new mines were opened up in those days in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa, and many mines long closed were reactivated. Many men who had had some mining experience left the farm and the factory to assist in meeting the mining needs of the country and to respond to the urgent appeal of their Government.

When that emergency had apparently ended, those who had had long experience in mining in our district felt that a gradual tapering off of the premium-price plan was in order, rather than an abrupt end to this support, and that some effort to accomplish stability in prices of lead and zinc was desirable. To those of us living in that section,

it seemed not only uneconomical but downright foolhardy to cut off overnight the subsidies necessary to maintain certain of the mining operations then in progress, and to permit mines opened up at a tremendous expense to fill with water and in many cases become forever unavailable for future operations. The Congress saw fit to pass legislation extending the premium-price plan for a limited time, and in an effort to give some stability, not only to the production of these two metals, but to the price of same.

President Truman saw fit to veto this legislation, with the result that mining activity in our district rapidly sank to a near-zero level. The prices of lead and zinc, without bonus support, would support only a very few of the numerous World War II operations.

I would like to state parenthetically at this point a fact which is well known to the miner but which may not be appreciated by all the members of this committee. The mining of lead and zinc in our section ordinarily involves the sinking of a shaft at great expense and the constant pumping of water-24 hours of each dayin order to maintain the underground tunnels sufficiently dry to permit the extraction of ore. When the pumps are turned off these mines fill up completely with water in a very short time, and cannot be reactivated except at tremendous expense, and in some cases the cost of reactivation is prohibitive. The general assumption of people not familiar with mining is that metal production can be started or stopped more or less at will; that it is possible during unfavorable periods to shut down and save the metal for more profitable periods.

To visit a mine in operation, seeing the openings supported by massive rock pillars or timbers, the water being pumped, the fan installations to keep proper ventilation, the supervisory organization, the manpower, and the specialized equipment needed to sustain active operations, would correct this erroneous impression. Even brief closure means high cost to maintain equipment, replace failing timber, and keep the mine pumped out. Long closure makes these activities prohibitive, and the mine is abandoned. Then it floods and caves. Supervisory and mining crews are disbanded, making resumption of mining costly and oftentimes prohibitive.

And now to come to more modern history.

With the passage of the Defense Production Act of 1950, word once more went out from Washington that the needs of the Nation required once again an "all out" effort, not only to produce as much lead and zinc as possible, but to locate additional reserves. The floor contract and procurement contract program was initiated, RFC loans were made available to those who could not obtain private financing, and exploration loans were offered those willing to match Government funds in a search for badly needed reserves.

I can speak from practical experience at this point, because I personally represented as counsel a number of very small mining companies, and also a number of larger ones. Once again the miner in our district responded to the call of his Government and, upon the basis of promised price-support contracts and drilling contractsand also upon the promise of RFC aid which would be forthcoming(and I use the word "promise" advisedly)-new ventures were started, old mines where possible were again pumped out, and a drilling program was set in motion. A tremendous force of personnel was set

up in Washington. I personally made trip after trip to present applications for floor contracts and RFC and exploration loans, and to wind my way through the miles of Government redtape involved in the processing of such applications. A number of major producers came into the district in reliance upon the statements by Government officials that lead and zinc were both very critical and would be for an indefinite time to come.

I first came to Washington in the winter of 1950-51, and heard myself the fervent pleas of Government officials to bring in the application of every mining company which could by any means increase the production of these two metals-with any reasonable Government support. I was promised every assistance possible-and speedily.

The word was transmitted back to the Wisconsin and the Illinois and the Iowa miner. How many applications for aid were filed, I do not know. It has been impossible to obtain the information, although it has been repeatedly requested. I do know, however, that I, myself, filed applications for 15 floor contracts, drilling contracts, and RFC loans.

What happened? Various floor contracts were negotiated to the point of closing. Several RFC loan commitments were made. And then, after many months of negotiations and supplying of technical data requested, these various operators-large and small-were told that the commitments of the Government could not be met; that the emergency, which had been painted as a long-range one, was over; that the stockpile needs of the Government had been met; and that there was so much lead and zinc being shipped into the country from abroad that the Government had seen fit to cancel out all of the support program, including RFC commitments, except for exploration loans. The exploration program is practically at a standstill because operators cannot now afford even to match Government funds.

My experience is cited as typical only, and can be duplicated many times in other parts of the country. From the time of the passage of the Defense Production Act up to the present time, I know of only two RFC loans granted and disbursed in my district. I know of only one floor contract on which operations are actually currently in progress. Zinc is down to 11 cents. Lead is selling at 12.3 cents. Both would undoubtedly be lower were it not for the effort being made by the miners themselves to hang on in the hope of obtaining tariff relief, and those who are attempting to bring to the attention of this committee the serious need for such relief.

I come now to a consideration of the picture with which we are faced today in Wisconsin, northern Illinois, and northeastern Iowa. Before the serious price breaks in these two metals, we had in our district 25 small mining operations. Today we have four, and these will undoubtedly close down if there is a further market decline or if tariff relief is not forthcoming in the very near future.

We have only a few large mining companies in our district-Vinegar Hill (a subsidiary of Youngstown Sheet & Tube, Tri-State, EaglePicher, and Calumet and Hecla, as operators, and the New Jersey Zinc Co., on an exploratory basis. Most of these operations were brought into this district during World War II and the Korean emergency which followed.