SUPPLY. Order for Committee read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair." ADMINISTRATION OF THE ARMY. RESOLUTION. was such as fully to justify the confidence reposed in them by the officers; while, on the other hand, in other regiments at the same station, those arrears were paid in driblets; not only did the money do the soldiers very little good, but their conduct was not so praiseworthy as that of the men who received it in a lump sum. He also instanced the case of the payment of the men who were sent to Canada after the affair of the Trent, and stated that they much approved of the system of weekly payments. On these grounds, he hoped that the Government would give the question careful consideration. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word " That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "in the opinion of this House, it would be advantageous and convenient to substitute a system of weekly in lieu of daily payments to those non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers of the Army whose previous conduct might warrant the extension of this indulgence,”—(Mr. Percy Wyndham,) -instead thereof. Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." MR. PERCY WYNDHAM, in rising to move that, in the opinion of this House, it would be advantageous and convenient to substitute a system of weekly in lieu of daily payments to those non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers of the Army whose previous conduct might warrant the extension of this indulgence, said, he was of opinion that this indulgence would be of great benefit to soldiers of good conduct. The driblets of pay they received daily were of very little use to them, being so small after the regulation deduction. Raising the soldiers' pay had led to no less than 26,000 enlistments, and he believed the proposal he had in view would be attended by the most advantageous results, and would greatly encourage and facilitate the habit of saving. That proposal was a very simple one, and it had the SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, this great merit that it would not add one farwas one of those matters affecting the thing to the Estimates. What he proposed internal economy of regiments in which was, that non-commissioned officers and he should not venture to interfere with soldiers should be paid weekly instead of the discretion of His Royal Highness the daily. It was quite clear that they would Commander-in-Chief. There was, no doubt, prefer it, as even now they often got the a good deal to be said in favour of the captain to keep the money for them until view advocated by his hon. Friend, and the end of the week. The large number of the matter, he promised, should not be men offering themselves for re-enlistment lost sight of. Indeed, he believed, the had enabled commanding officers to refuse Commander-in-Chief was about to make men who had been guilty of misconduct, so the alteration. that the men in the ranks were now of a class clearly entitled to favourable consideration. There had been instances be. fore Delhi, and in Canada, and elsewhere, in which the ordinary rule of daily payments had been departed from, and the change had given great satisfaction to the men. There was recently a case in which, when some troops were sent to Malta, the officers of some of the regiments directed the arrears of ninety days' due-owing to the advance in the amount of soldiers' pay made last Session, on the recommendation of the right hon. and gallant Member for Huntingdon (General Peel)-to be paid in one payment, which amounted to 158. or 20s. each man; and not only was this regarded as a boon, but the conduct of the troops who received it MR. PERCY WYNDHAM said, he would withdraw his Amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE (SCOTLAND) BILL.-QUESTION. MR. GLADSTONE said, the Committee on the Scotch Reform Bill had been fixed for Monday; but he understood that the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli) had arranged that the Navy Estimates should be taken first on Monday; and the Scotch Reform Bill afterwards. Now, as he understood, the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool (Mr. Horsfall)—a Motion relating to the restrictions upon the importation of foreign cattle --which has been delayed many times, and in which great interest is felt-will be taken before Supply, and he did not think they could reckon on getting through that discussion in less than two hours. Then he felt that the Navy Estimates would carry the right hon. Gentleman far through the night. Now, he should be glad if, for the convenience of the House, they could understand what arrangement the right hon. Gentleman proposed? MR. DISRAELI said, he was aware of the circumstances to which the right hon. Gentleman had called attention, and he had been consulting with one of his right hon. Friends on the subject at the moment when the right hon. Gentleman rose. He did not think it would be satisfactory either that the House should be in any doubt about the time at which the Scotch Reform Bill would come on or that the Bill should be brought forward at a late hour. He thought, therefore, it was better to have it understood that the Bill would not be taken on Monday. The Boundary Bill was the first Order for Thursday night. He would put the Scotch Reform Bill down as the second; and if it could not be brought on that night it might be fixed for another day. MR. CRAUFURD said, that his conviction was that the discussion on the Boundary Bill would occupy so much time as to throw the Scotch Reform Bill over. He therefore hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would fix the Scotch Reform Bill as the first Order. So important a Bill should not be placed second. MR. DISRAELI suggested that they had better confine themselves at present to arranging that the Bill was not to come on next Monday. On Monday they could make further arrangements. SIR J. CLARKE JERVOISE said, that in rising to move for an Address to the Queen praying for an inquiry into the spread of disease by infection, with a view to legislation on the subject, he made no pretence to science beyond that knowledge which was founded upon fucts. His only logic in connection with this matter was the inexorable logic of facts. This question he (Sir J. Clarke Jervoise) considered to be one of unbounded magnitude, and of the greatest possible interest. When he brought forward the measure last year The he was answered by the noble Lord the Vice President of the Committee of Council, who said that all infectious disorders were contagious, but all contagious disorders were not infectious, and stated also that a few Gentlemen connected with the Privy Council were acquainted with all disorders. It had been stated by the Medical Officers of the Privy Council that every disorder was descended in regular pedigree, and that, though we could no more tell the first parent of disease than we could tell the origin of species, the consequence might be predicted with the certainty of a chemical experiment. He confessed, however, his inability to perceive how, according to the rules of logic, it was possible to argue with the certainty of a chemical experiment upon premises which were altogether uncertain. Pall Mall Gazette had spoken of his Notice as one that perplexed the student of the Notice Paper of the House of Commons. He did not, however, think that the services of any literary Brothers Davenport were required to unravel the meaning. But if he was altogether incomprehensible there would be nothing singular in that. Last year, on speaking to an eminent Member of that House who had taken a leading part in connection with the Cattle Plague Bill, that Gentleman observed to him that he knew nothing at all about the matter. "What!" was his exclamation, "and you a Member of the Government which brought in the Bill! have you been legislating on what you do not understand?" The reply was, "Certainly; if we only legislated on what we understand there would be no legislation at all." He was convinced that an inquiry into the subject would result in great good to all ranks of the community from the highest to the lowest. Last year he mentioned that leprosy was a type of all that had been said of the dangers and communicability of disease by the process of infection; and he wished now to point out that the mode of dealing with leprosy was the type of many of the mistakes, follies, and crimes which had been perpetrated in the name of humanity. There were still remains existing of the leper-houses which once were so numerous in this land. The disease still prevailed in India and in Syria, and since last year there had been a remarkable case at Alexandria, where Dr. Simonides died in the autumn of leprosy. Thus, we had the disease descending from the original parent of leprosy, and showing itself in the de where the Judge ordered the windows of the Court to be opened, and the jury sat with their hats on for fear of infection. Had theJudge never heard of John Howard, nor ever seen a Sister of Charity going forth on her mission of mercy?-he would also refer to outbreaks of typhus fever at the village of Terling, in Essex. That outbreak was self-originating, but was said to be due to the defective state of the water supply of the village. With regard to quarantine, he had a memorial signed by many gentlemen, none of whom probably would support him in all his views, who nevertheless saw the absurdity and cruelty of quarantine. A large amount of evidence had been obtained in reference to the cattle plague, and that evidence was not worthy of consideration as to the origin of the disease. The present laws on the subject of infectious diseases were crude and cruel. How was it possible to put such laws in force? Called on as a magistrate to enforce them, he had felt that there is a time when duty ceases and conscience begins; and he had declined any longer to act in administering these laws. scendant of the original Simon. Referring the majority of deaths occurred amongst to smallpox, he mentioned the case at those who had not been vaccinated-proAylesbury of Emanuel Cooke, who twice bably they could not read or write; but escaped from the workhouse, was taken the fact he had stated showed that vaccibefore the magistrates, and sentenced to nation did not prevent a recurrence of fine or imprisonment. It was also said the disease. With respect to typhus fever that one of the Royal Family had suf- it was known that it was produced in fered from smallpox; and we could only many cases by foul water, by defective hope that Royal princes were at least drainage, and by other kindred causes, properly vaccinated. It was further re- which led to blood poisoning. Several reported that the Secretary of State for cent cases of gaol fever occurred at Devizes War had suffered from something of the kind. One statement said it was chickenpox, and another said it was something else. He understood on good authority it was smallpox. What with chicken, and cowpox, it only required a little change in age and sex to make a cock-and-bull story; and he was sorry that the right hon. Gentleman was not present to give the House some information on the matter. At all events, we must hope he was not exposed to the isolation inflicted on the pauper at Aylesbury, and that he was not denied the consolation of his friends. The Compulsory Vaccination Bill he had opposed, because it was not fair to subject poor people to the trouble it would entail upon them. It was cruel to ask a poor woman in the country to travel four miles, perhaps, in the depth of winter or height of summer for the purpose of getting her child vaccinated, merely upon the supposition that the disease might be communicated, which had not been proved in a single instance. There was a town (Sheffield) where a meeting of the inhabitants was held in consequence of the surgeon to the troops who were quartered MR. LIDDELL, in seconding the Mothere having made a report that some of the tion, said he was in hopes that even in the soldiers in the barracks were attacked with midst of political excitement the imporsmallpox, and that there were numerous tance-he might almost say the necessity cases in the town. But this latter state-of this subject would induce the House ment must have arisen from a mere guess on the part of the surgeon; that because there was smallpox in the barracks therefore it must be in the town; for when an inquiry was made hardly a single case could be found in the town; and on going back to the barracks the cause of the disease was traced plainly enough to the defective state of the arrangements there, and on removing these the disease disappeared. When the noble Lord stated last year that smallpox was absolutely preventible by vaccination, he must have known that, according to the Report of the Small pox Hospital, in round numbers, 81 per cent of the cases which entered that hospital were vaccinated cases. It might be that to give it a very careful attention. His great object was to prevail on the hon. Baronet and the House to allow the scope of this inquiry to be extended to a point beyond that contemplated by the hon. Baronet. He wished to extend the inquiry to a class of diseases unfortunately too prevalent, and to see whether the provisions of the Contagious Diseases Act might not be applied to all the great towns of the kingdom. Many Members of the House were aware that there existed an important central association in London, whose object was to have that Act extended to the civil population of our towns, and, further, very many great towns in the country were prepared to ask for the boon. Within the last few days, the great town of Newcastle, with which he was connected, had held a very important meeting upon the subject, and was prepared to ask the House to extend the Act to them, and he desired to add his voice to theirs. The difficulty that was felt in debating this subject was that one was precluded from bringing forward in public discussion the facts and evidence necessary to prove the case; but those facts and that evidence would be forthcoming at the right time and in the right place if the inquiry were extended as suggested. In many of the great towns, as he had said, a remarkable unanimity of opinion had existed on this question, and their case rested, not upon panic or excitement, but upon the sober observation of medical men. The evil was a social evil in the truest sense, because even the sanctity of home was stealthily broken in upon by this intruder, and thousands of children were swept away, or permanently affected by its ravages annually, and the seeds of divers diseases were thus sown broadcast among the population. In order to effect the purpose he had in view it would only be necessary to exclude from the Motion of the hon. Baronet the words "distinguished from contagion," so that both infectious and contagious disorders might be made the subject of the Inquiry. The hon. Baronet had designated the Compulsory Vaccination Act a cruel law; but that epithet certainly did not apply to the Contagious Diseases Act. The military and naval authorities could bear testimony to the fact that the Contagious Diseases Act had been attended with considerable benefit to those places in which it had been in operation; the unfortunate victims of these maladies hailed the medical surveillance as a boon, and that Act might now, he thought, be extended to the large centres of our population with such an amount of advantage to the publie welfare as it was difficult to estimate. The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in dealing with great social and sanitary ques. tions, was not a man to be appalled by difficulties, and he appealed to him to grant the Inquiry now asked for. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She will be graciously pleased to cause such inquiry to be instituted into the spread of disease by infection (distinguished from contagion) as may tend to check legislation and action in cases unsupported by the evidence, which in -instead thereof. Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." LORD ROBERT MONTAGU stated that the object of the hon. Baronet was already being carried out by the Medical Department of the Privy Council. The spread and the origin of disease was the subject of scientific study year by year, and of prolonged and accurate investigation. Annually there is laid before Parliament every new experience which is gained by that Office, or which is arrived at throughout the country, or even abroad. As examples he might mention the sixth Report of the year 1864, which gave the result of an interesting inquiry on the spread of communicable diseases in hospitals; the Report of 1866 dealt with the practice of quarantine, and showed it was of very little use as a preventive of yellow fever, although it might be required for commercial reasons. If we did not impose it here on some ships, all our ships would be put in quarantine abroad. The medical officers also made special experimental researches; in 1867 a minute investigation touching the communicability of cholera was made, and anyone who had read that Report would see that no pains or expense had been spared to make the inquiry exhaustive. This year a special investigation was being made regarding the communicability of phthisis and the allied diseases by means of inoculation. The hon. Baronet had complained that the Pall Mall Gazette had spoken of his Motion as unintelligible; he would, perhaps, pardon him if he were obliged to agree with the Pall Mall Gazette. He had been greatly perplexed as to the meaning of the Motion, and had chanced to fall into the same error as the hon. Member for Northumberland (Mr. Liddell). The terms of the Motion suggested another kind of infection, and a mode of infection which was common in large towns, and especially in our chief military stations; the terms of the Motion were these "The spread of disease by infection (distinguished from contagion) as may tend to check legislation and action in cases unsupported by the evidence, which in times of excitement saves a people from the commission of great crimes or great follies." He, therefore, had come down to the year ending September, 1867, while 850 House under the impression that the cases had been treated in the correspondhon. Baronet intended to refer to the ing half-year of 1864. It also appeared Contagious Diseases Act; the Secretary that, out of 153 Unions in Ireland, for War had been under the same im- there were only 4 in which smallpox pression, and only a few minutes ago had existed at the time the Report was made. discovered that he (the Secretary for Then the Return showed that in 1864 the War) might be released from the trou- deaths from smallpox were 853; in 1665, ble of reply, and that he (Lord Robert the number was reduced to 347; in 1866, Montagu) was to be the victim of the it was reduced to 187; and in 1867 only hon. Baronet's speech. It appeared now, 20 died. Considering what an amount of however, that the hon. Baronet desired misery had, as this Return showed, been a Royal Commission to inquire into sub- prevented by the Vaccination Act during jects at present dealt with by the Medi- these few years in only one portion of the cal Officer of the Privy Council. If he de- kingdom, he could not permit derision of sired the Commission to travel over the vaccination by a Member of the House of same ground as the medical officers, it Commons to pass without rebuke. He would obviously be unnecessary; if he de- agreed with the hon. Member for Northsired it to extend its operations beyond umberland on the question he had raised the scope assigned to that officer, he would he thought the Contagious Diseases Act be simply asking the House to re-consti- might be beneficially extended to the large tute the Medical Department of the Board towns- but he recommended the hon. of Health, which Parliament had abolished Member to bring forward a special Motion in 1858. In either case the inquiry he on the subject. asked for would be conducted under less rigid control than that which ruled the Medical Department of the Privy Council, and would involve a far larger expense than that which was now voted; and for these reasons he recommended the withdrawal of the Motion. MR. BRUCE said, he believed the hon. Member for South Northumberland (Mr. Liddell) was mistaken as to the object of the hon. Baronet's Motion. As he understood the case, the hon. Baronet wished for an inquiry into the subject of infection, seeming to be under the impression that infection was different from contagion. In this view of the case, the addendum of the hon. Member was not appli. cable; but he noticed that the hon. Baronet approved the proceedings of a wrong-headed man, at Sheffield, whose sole object in life seemed to be to incite people to resist the beneficent law of vaccination. He (Mr. Bruce) therefore desired to say a word to correct the harm which might result from the observations of the right hon. Baronet. During the last few days a Return had been made as to the results of the Vaccination Act in Ireland since 1864, when compulsory vaccination was first enforced. The Commission stated in that Report that the smallpox returns from workhouse fever hospitals in 1867 showed 4 deaths as compared with 149 in 1864, or 1-37th. The returns of smallpox medical officers of dispensaries showed that only 24 cases had been treated in the half Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. TURNPIKE TRUSTS. MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS. MR. CLIVE said, he rose to call attention to the Seventeenth General Report on Turnpike Trusts made by direction of the Secretary of State for the Home Department under the Act 3 & 4 Will. IV., c. 80. In 1864, he had the honour of being Chairman of a Committee on the subject, of which the Under Secretary for the Home Department (Sir James Fergusson) was a member; so that, whenever during the past year or two he had been asked by his Friends what progress had been made in the matter, or rather, why no progress at all had been made, he answered that there was a Gentleman at the head of that Department of Home Affairs who was thoroughly acquainted with the subject, and would, no doubt, do it justice. He had believed there was every reason to hope for favourable results from the present Administration. But what had occurred? Under the former Administration, 120 or 130 Turnpike Trusts where scheduled for abolition; but since the accession to Office of the present Government and especially under the Administration of the noble Lord, now a Governor in Australia (the Earl of Belmore)-a retrograde course had been pursued, and the policy adopted for many |