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passions which surround the discussion of it "elsewhere." We may hope to have the assistance of the right rev. Bench, whose authority on subjects of this kind must carry the greatest weight. If a Committee be appointed, although I do not anticipate what conclusions it may come to, I certainly trust one result, at all events, will be that the law upon this subject in whatever enactments contained, will be put on a clearer, a better, a more definite, a more consistent, and a more satisfactory footing than it is at present.

that the Report was carried simply by the struggle, and there would be a desire casting vote of the Chairman. There was either to pass the Bill or reject it; and a discussion in this House last Session, it would not have that cool and disembarwhen various Members of your Lordships' rassed consideration which, in a Committee House again took different views upon the of this kind, may be given to the law apart question of the repeal of the Act of 1851 from any measure that may be pending. and the section of the previous Acts, some I think, moreover, if there is any place of your Lordships expressing the opinion, where this subject can be considered discontrary to opinions previously entertained, passionately and, I might almost say, in a that that repeal should take place, while judicial spirit, it is before a Committee of others were of opinion that the Act should this House. We can approach this subbe continued unchanged. With these dif-ject without any of those prejudices or ferences of sentiment in both branches of the Legislature, I cannot but think, if there are facts to be inquired into, and if there be law to be considered, nothing can be more convenient than a Committee of this House for that purpose. I own I do not quite take the view of my noble Friend (Lord Lyveden) who said, that in the evidence taken by the Committee of the other House he should find all the information upon this subject which could be required. I think that that evidence might be very usefully enlarged. There are many points connected with this subject as a whole which were not inquired into by that Committee. Let me point out what advantage it seems to me may result from inquiry in this House. My noble Friend has done well to give his proposition the breadth and scope which it derives from the words of his notice of Motion. No greater mistake could be made than to suppose this is simply a question connected with the Roman Catholic Church; and that it is not a question which goes very much further, and involves the whole law with regard to the Prerogative of the Crown, and the assumption of titles of the kind which has been referred to by any Church or by anybody. My noble Friend, therefore, has proposed that a Select Committee shall be appointed to inquire into the operation of all the laws of the country with regard to the assumption of ecclesiastical titles, whether the laws be written or not written, and, moreover, whether any alteration should be made therein. It has been urged in objection to the Motion that there is no Bill before the House, and a noble Lord appeared to think that that was an objection to the appointment of a Committee. I own I think, on the contrary, it is a great advantage to the Committee. If there were a Bill before the Committee simply repealing one or both of the Acts which had been referred to, there would be very considerable danger of the Committee raising upon that Bill more or less of a

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THE EARL OF MALMESBURY: Your Lordships will have gathered from the statement of my noble and learned Friend (the Lord Chancellor) that the Government, as a Government, have no objection whatever to the appointment of this Committee; but that, on the contrary, they think it will be rather useful than otherwise. I wish, however, to say a word with respect to my own conduct. I certainly was one of those who voted in favour of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill in 1851, though I was prevented by domestic reasons from being present when the matter was discussed in this House last Session; but had I been present I certainly should not have cried "Peccavi as some of your Lordships have done. I am not at present prepared to say that I regret the vote which I gave in 1851; but, at the same time that circumstance only makes me the more anxious to investigate and thoroughly understand the change of feeling which has occurred since the passing of the Act and the causes which have induced many of your Lordships, and a considerable portion of the people of this country, to alter their minds on the subject. I must protest against what has been said by the noble Baron on the back Benches (Lord Lyveden) as a reason for not discussing this question; for I think your Lordships will agree with me that it is not our business to be biassed by what is going on in the other House of Parlia

ment, but that we ought to do our duty in an independent spirit. A measure has, I believe been laid upon the table of the other House of Parliament in reference to this question; but, at present, it is not our business to go into that at all. The probability that that measure will be sent up to us is an additional reason for appointing a Committee, in order that we may be thoroughly informed on the subject. I very much regret that the noble Earl (Earl Russell) is not present, and also the cause of his absence from the House this evening; for he certainly bore a very prominent part in passing the Act of 1851, and I should have liked to hear his opinion respecting the advisability of stirring up the subject again, and bringing it before your Lordships' consideration. I trust my noble Friend who has proposed this Committee will take some pains to constitute it in such a manner as to make it impossible for anybody to suppose that it was biassed by any political or party feeling, and that with this end in view he will invite such Members to sit on it as are best able to investigate this question calmly and with experience. I also think it essential that some of the right rev. Prelates should be appointed Members of the Committee.

Motion agreed to.

And, on March 30, the Lords following were named of the Committee: the Committee to meet on March 31, at Four o'clock, and to appoint their own Chairman :

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MR. PIM said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether his attention has been called to the working of "The Local Government (England) Act, 66 The General Police and Im1858," and provement (Scotland) Act, 1862," and to the facilities afforded by those Acts to corporate and other towns in Great Britain to obtain power for the better execution of the Local Improvement Acts in force in such towns, without incurring the costs and expenses attendant upon Private Bill Legislation; whether it is his intention to propose any similar Act for Ireland, by which the advantages now enjoyed by the cities and towns of England and ScotBrought from the Commons; read 1a.-(The land, and which have been so largely Earl Russell.) (No. 55.)

Ld. Chancellor
Ld. Abp. York
Ld. Privy Seal
D. Somerset
E. Stanhope
E. Carnarvon
E. Harrowby
E. Granville

E. Russell
L. Bp. London
L. Bp. Oxford
L. Redesdale
L. Colchester
L. Somerhill

L. Lyveden.

COMPULSORY CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.

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availed of, be extended to the cities and towns of Ireland; whether the Laws which provide for the keeping, for the auditing, and for the publication of the accounts of the municipal corporations, the boards of town commissioners, and some other public bodies in Ireland, are not very defective, and whether he intends to proPose any remedy therefor; whether it is not the case that, in respect to the election of commissioners under "The Towns Im. provement (Ireland) Act, 1854," equal facilities are not provided for the exercise of the Franchise as are provided for the

election of the English local boards under "The Public Health Act, 1848," and "The Local Government Act, 1858;" and, whether he is prepared to take this subject into consideration, and propose a remedy?

THE EARL OF MAYO, in reply, said, he quite agreed with the hon. Gentleman that the Irish Law in regard to the matter in question was defective, and it would be a great public advantage if the same facilities for obtaining provisional orders which existed under the Local Government (England) Act were provided for Ireland. He also thought that the mode of taking the polls at municipal elections for Ireland was very defective, and ought to be remedied. It would also be a great public advantage if a more effective mode were adopted for auditing the accounts of local bodies acting under the Municipal and Towns Improvement Acts. He had given directions that the Towns Improvement Act generally should be very carefully considered, for the purpose of making some amendments in it; and he hoped shortly after Easter to lay on the Table a Towns provement Bill which would deal with the questions to which the hon. Gentleman had referred.

ARMY-COOKING APPARATUS.

QUESTION.

ber for Peterborough he really was unacquainted with the merits of Mr. Jaques' invention; but if the hon. Member would renew his inquiry he (Sir John Pakington) would afford any information which he might be able to obtain.

POST OFFICE-EASTERN MAIL SER

VICES. QUESTION.

MR. CRAWFORD said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether the sums, amounting in the whole to £27,643, stated in a Return dated 7th December, 1867 (Parliamentary Paper, No. 68, of the present Session), to be the estimated receipts in respect of the Eastern Mail Services outwards and inwards for four weeks, are calculated at the rates of postage in force at the time when the Return was made up, or at the present increased rates; and, in the former case, what may be the sum by which the Estimate of £27,643 may be expected to be augmented by reason of the increased charge; whether the sums receivable in Im-India or elsewhere out of the United Kingdom are included in the estimate in question, so as to come in further diminution of the sum which may be voted for the conveyance of the Eastern Mails; and, whether an exact account is kept of the postages received or chargeable in respect of the said Services ?

COLONEL SYKES said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, Whether the application of Captain Warren, R.N., whose patent cooking apparatus has been adopted for use in the Army by War Office Memorandum, dated War Office, 21st August, 1867 [B/a-1741], will be referred to the "Standing Committee for the consideration of the claims of inventors to rewards," in conformity with the War Office Circular, dated 28th June, 1867 [84 Gen. Nos. 1571 and 1601]?

MR. THOMSON HANKEY said, he also wished to ask, Whether a cooking apparatus of a similar character had been patented by Mr. Jaques?

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON, in reply, said, it was quite true that Captain Warren had claimed to have invented such an apparatus; but he believed that Captain Warren had been sufficiently rewarded by having his apparatus purchased from his own agents, and he (Sir John Pakington) certainly had no intention to refer the question to any Committee. With reference to the Question of the hon. MemVOL. CXCI. [THIRD SERIES.]

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steps have been taken, under the provi- | sification of prisoners convicted of misdesions of the above-mentioned Acts, to re- meanour; but in England the Prison Act medy the imperfect state of the drainage of 1865 contained this provisionof Acton, Chiswick, and a detached part of Ealing, as reported to the Home Department in October, 1866, by Mr. Fulton, the engineer?

"And whenever any person convicted of mis demeanour is sentenced to imprisonment without hard labour, it shall be lawful for the Court or Judge before whom such person has been tried to order, if such Court or Judge think fit, that such person shall be treated as a misdemeanant of the first division, and a misdemeanant of the first division shall not be deemed to be a criminal prisoner within the meaning of this Act." The treatment of persons undergoing sentences for this description of offences was that of first-class misdemeanants, which was regulated by Rules made by two Justices at Quarter Sessions, subject to the approval of the Secretary of State. He would hand a copy of those Rules to the hon. Member.

QUESTION.

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON, in reply, said, he was not prepared to admit that there were defects in the Law to which his noble Friend pointed. Where the Secretary of State had reason to believe there was any disinclination on the part of the local authority to execute necessary drainage operations, he sent down a person to inquire into the case; if he found the local authority disinclined to perform the necessary works, he ordered them to be carried into execution, and he had power to recover the cost of the works. The remedy was by attachment of the property of the ARMY-GRANT FOR FORTIFICATIONS defaulting parties. In the case of a vestry there was no personal property; and it was a question, whether the Secretary of State could oblige the overseers to pay. The Opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown had been taken last year, and, from their Opinion, it appeared doubtful if the Act of 1867 gave powers to the Secretary of State to issue a precept to the overseer to levy additional rates. But, believing that the Legislature intended to give him the power to enforce his order, his (Sir James Fergusson's) right hon. Friend intended to try to enforce it, and if he found that he had not that power, he would apply to Parliament for additional powers. The parishes in question had failed to execute the necessary works because the Metropolitan Board declined to allow them to drain into the only available outfall, on the ground that it was insufficient for the pose. They would therefore have to take other steps.

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IRELAND-TREATMENT OF PRISONERS.

QUESTION.

MR. STOCK said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether the Law in Ireland is the same as that in England with regard to the treatment of prisoners convicted of seditious libel ?

THE EARL OF MAYO said, in reply, that he did not know whether this was quite a Question which he should be called upon to answer; but he might state shortly what he believed to be the difference of the Law in England and Ireland. In Ireland the Law did not provide for the clas

COLONEL SYKES said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether the Treasury Minute, dated the 16th August, 1867, for the audit of the sums granted for Fortifications annually has been carried into effect; and whether the results will be laid upon the Table?

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH said, in reply, that the annual audit of these sums had been carried into effect in accordance with the terms of the Treasury Minute, and the results of that audit would be laid upon the table of the House as soon as possible. He could not promise, however, that they would be ready by a very early day.

THE SURVIVORS OF THE "ST. ABBE.'

QUESTION.

MR. BAILLIE COCHRANE said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for India, If it is the intention of the Government to send out any person to the East Coast of Africa, to inquire into the truth of the report that there are detained as prisoners, by the Somali tribe, some survivors of the ship St. Abbe, which was wrecked off Tenadi Nuova in 1855?

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, in reply, that a deputation, consisting of members of the Royal Geographical Society, including Sir Roderick Murchison, waited upon him at the India Office some time ago, and represented that steps should be taken to inquire into the truth of the report relative to the supposed survivors of the ship St. Abbe. It was suggested by the deputation that the Government should

give facilities to a gentleman well ac- SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH said, quainted with that part of Africa to make in reply, that the circumstances of the case inquiries respecting those persons. The referred to by the hon. Member were matter was considered by the Council of these:-In December last the Board of India, who did not think it right that any Guardians of the Strand Union called upon facility of that kind should be given, or their medical officer, Dr. Rogers, to rethat the Government should pledge itself sign, and the matter coming before the in any way, and make such inquiries Poor Law Board, they asked for an exthrough an authorized agent of the British planation of the reasons for such a step Government in a country with which we being taken. The Board of Guardians had no diplomatic relations. However, returned for answer that Dr. Rogers had, another suggestion was made, which was for a long time past, committed a series of that there was a great fair being held at indiscretions which rendered it impossible Berbera about this time of the year, and for them to work harmoniously together, that among the large numbers of persons and exhibiting a great want of courtesy in present there might be means afforded of his communications with the Officers of making inquiries as to the existence of the Board. The result was, that the Board these alleged survivors, and it was sug- thought it necessary to suspend him from gested that a reward might be offered his office. With respect to the second which should have the effect of bringing part of the Question, he could not do the required information. He had com- better than read the concluding paragraph municated with his noble Friend the Se- of the Board's letter on the occasion, which cretary of State for Foreign Affairs upon the statedsubject; and, with the noble Lord's concurrence, he had communicated with the English Resident at Aden, authorizing him to offer a suitable award for any information respecting the subject of the report.

INDIA-THE BONUS COMMITTEE.

QUESTION.

MR. BRUEN said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for India, When the Bonus Committee sitting in India are likely to come to a settlement of claims to compensation made by Officers in the late East India Company's Army?

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, in reply, said, several Committees were sitting upon this subject. Inquiries had to be made into the particulars of each case, and in a great number of instances an award had been made of the sums payable to the Officers. As fast as the awards were made the money awarded was paid over to those entitled to receive it.

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"The Board are happy to be able to add that no blame can be imputed to you in reference to the discharge of your strictly professional duties, and the Board do not doubt that you have shown zeal and ability in the performance of them. This adds to the regret of the Board that you should, from other causes, have rendered it necessary for them to accept your resignation."

INDIA - RELIGIOUS PROVISION FOR
SOLDIERS IN INDIA.-QUESTION.
MR. O'REILLY said, he would beg to
ask the Secretary of State for India, Whe-
ther an order has been issued by the Go-
vernor General in Council in India-

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Relative to providing a room in the Lines of European Regiments in India to which the men can resort for private reading and prayer, and for holding prayer meetings and other meetings of a similar character, and directing that a room of a suitable size, with such furniture as may be deemed to fit it for the purposes above-mentioned, ments in the barracks of every British Regiment shall be considered one of the recognized requireor considerable detachment of British Troops; and further that a residence will be assigned to a Scripture Reader in the married quarters." Whether the rooms contemplated in the above order will be available for the Roman Catholic Soldiers for similar purposes of united and public prayer and other devotional exercises consonant with their religion; and, whether in cases where Roman Catholic Soldiers comprise the majority or or other large portion of the troops, a residence will be assigned to a Roman Catholic Catechist or religious teacher, as in other cases to a Protestant Scripture

Reader?

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