SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, in of great interest and importance set down reply, said, he had received no informa--Supply, the Mutiny Bill, the Controtion on the subject of this order, although verted Elections Bill, and the Capital he had seen some reference to it in the Punishments Bill. newspapers. If such an order had been issued he would no doubt receive official information respecting it in a few days.

SUPPLY.

Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

BANKRUPTCY LAW.-OBSERVATIONS.

luded to the language used by some clergy- | system had fallen into such a state that it men at the different Church defence meet- was as bad as it could be. The figures to ings held in Ireland, and, amongst others, which he had referred did not at all show referred to the language used by the Rev. the extent of the evil; for the facilities Mr. Wilson, at Limerick, whom he incor- given by the Act of 1862 for private arrectly described as Moderator of the Pres- rangements had led to gross abuse, which byterian Assembly of Ulster. He was reflected the greatest possible discredit informed, and, at the time, he unquestion- upon the legislation of the country. Under ably believed it to be true, that the Mr. the Act of 1862 composition deeds became Wilson who made the speech was the a part of the Bankruptcy Law; and the Moderator of the General Assembly of number of them had since very largely inUlster. He now found he was in error, creased. Their number in 1862 was 698, and as the statement had given that and in 1867 3,971, giving a gross amount rev. gentleman very great pain, he took of unsecured debts of £373,000, as against that opportunity of correcting the mis- £8,246,432. The number of the deeds of take. assignment registered in 1862 was 1,886, in 1864 2,284, and in 1867 2,803; but the gross amount of unsecured debts had risen from £1,013,000 in 1862, to £5,725,592 in 1864, and £10,642,646 in 1867. The same result had occurred with deeds of inspectorship, which from 46 in 1862 had increased to 138 in 1867, showing a gross amount of unsecured debts of £190,400 in the former year as against MR. MOFFATT, in rising to call at- £10,753,550 in the latter. No man could tention to the position of Parliament in go into any counting-house in the City reference to the amendment of the Law of without finding the present state of the Bankruptcy, and to the expediency of in- law strongly reprobated. It really would troducing a Bill into the House for that almost appear that the House of Commons purpose without delay, said, that the law had successfully endeavoured to invent as it now stood gave immense privileges to some system by which creditors should be debtors, restrained greatly the rights of mulcted of the money to which they were creditors, and vested large discretionary entitled. Seeing how the Act of 1862 powers in the Judge. He ventured to say was working, the House in 1864 appointed that the Law of Bankruptcy was one of a Committee which inquired very carefully the most important of laws in a commercial and fully into the question, and afterwards community like that of this country. The made a Report, recommending the estab Bankruptcy Law was amended by Lord lishment of some cheap and simple mode Westbury's Act in 1861, and in 1864 the of administering bankrupts' estates, such number of bankruptcies had increased from as the Scotch system. The Committee 1,432 to 7,224, whilst the amount of assets endeavoured to disentangle the question of had decreased about 50 per cent. In 1867 punishment of debtors from that of the the number of bankruptcies had increased distribution of their estates, and they reto 8,994. By Lord Westbury's Act it was commended the abolition of the Bankruptcy provided that persons might become bank- Courts, both the London and the District rupts on their own petition; and in 1864 Courts. He could not say that these recomthere were of these 5,260, and in 1867 mendations had been productive of much the number was 6,532, showing an increase good. It was quite true that they caused of gentlemen who, having nothing to pay, the introduction of a Bill in the following chose to become bankrupt, of 25 per cent. Session; but that Bill was of so cumbrous In 1864 there were discharged without any a character and so little regarded the recompunishment 5,335 bankrupts, and the num-mendations of the Committee that it soon ber in 1867 was 6,902; but the amount collected had shrunk from £677,000 to £583,000. The number of bankrupts who had paid no dividend was no less than 5,876; and this, he submitted, could not be considered a satisfactory state of things. He indeed believed that the whole

ceased to exist. The Bill of 1866, though more formidable in appearance than its predecessor with its 480 clauses, required two Bills to prop it up, and was now considered useless. He thought that the House of Commons should be specially charged with a subject which was so intimately

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that it would be very inconvenient for him to state the principles of the measure. The House was perfectly aware that a Bill had been brought in and read a second time in the House of Lords; and, in due course, he hoped it would come before the House of Commons, when they would have the advantage of the hon. Member's knowledge of the subject in discussing the measure.

Motion, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," agreed to.

SUPPLY-ARMY ESTIMATES.
SUPPLY considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)

(1.) £322,900, Clothing Establishments.
(2.) £506,300, Barrack Establishment.
(3.) £26,800, Divine Service.
(4.) £13.000, Martial Law.
(5.) £280,800, Hospital Establishment.
(6.) £686,800, Militia and Inspection of
Reserve Forces.

(7.) £58,000, Yeomanry Cavalry.

connected with trade, and he found with | Law; for he was satisfied that this even deep regret that this great question was would be a great relief to the commerce relegated to the other House. He could of the country. not refer to what had occurred in "another place"; but he hoped to receive some in formation as to the principles of the Bill which the Government intended to bring before the House of Commons. The present law was a remnant of the old system of protection which governed all our commercial dealings two centuries ago. We began by protecting the creditor, and then went on to protect the debtor. The result was that we had a system of protection so perfect for the debtor, and so adverse to the creditor, that it was as discreditable to fair dealing as any of the worst cases of protection in the matter of trade which had long ago ceased to exist. It might be described as giving immunity to fraud, and as confiscating the assets of creditors. In 1865 the amount divided among creditors was £450.000, and to divide that sum it cost £375,000. When they coupled this with the fact that every man could make himself bankrupt and get discharged from his debts with the greatest immunity, he thought that it must be felt that there could not be a worse system. A debtor who did not want to pay his debts frequently said, "I court inquiry, and I will put my affairs into the Court of Bankruptcy," and under this threat creditors took anything they could get rather than lose the whole. When these matters were considered they could scarcely be surprised at the distress which paralyzed the country, and the effect of this vicious legislation had been greatly increased by the facilities given to Limited Liability companies. In his opinion the sooner they abolished the whole system of the Bankruptcy Law the better. He hoped that they would adopt the Scotch system, modified to suit the wants of this country. Small changes would be of no use, and whilst they retained the present staff of Bankruptcy officials the Bankruptcy system would never have the public confidence, and would not deserve to have it. He wished to know the principles upon which the proposed Bill was founded; whether it was in accordance with the recommendations of the Committee of 1865; and further, whether, instead of a Bill framed in cumbrous and tortuous language, it would not be possible to bring in a short and simple measure? If they did not do this they had better at once repeal the existing Bankruptcy Law, and do for one year without a Bankruptcy

(8.) £285,100, Volunteer Corps.

COLONEL BARTTELOT expressed a wish to make some remarks upon this Vote. An influential deputation, composed of Volunteer commanding officers, had recently waited upon his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War. The deputation was most courteously received, but its prayer was not granted-that prayer being that some increase should be made in the amount of the Grant voted for the Volunteer service. He (Colonel Barttelot) believed that, in the opinion of that House and the country, the Volunteer force was considered a most valuable though inexpensive one, and that it ought to be maintained in an efficient state. The question for the House and the country to consider was, whether such efficiency could be secured by a small addition to the exist ing Grant, or whether, by the refusal of the application made, they were running the risk of diminishing the force or causing it to dwindle away. It might be said that the force had not fallen off in numbers; but had, on the contrary, increased, and was increasing. That was no doubt true; but, nevertheless, subscriptions to the force were gradually declining; and the conse

quence was that a great amount of expense | without imposing any serious burden on was thrown upon the force, and especially the country. upon its officers. It was not, he believed, the wish of the House or of the country that that should be the case. If the force was to be kept up as a Reserve force some additional Grant must be made to it. All the Volunteers required was, that all expenses connected with drills away from head-quarters should be paid by the country. The Volunteers were willing to give their services to their country; but they considered that if they went to different places for the purposes of drilling for their country, that their country ought to pay their expenses. He thought that a Royal Commission ought to be issued to inquire into the whole question of the Reserve forces, of which the Volunteers were a valuable auxiliary.

MR. DARBY GRIFFITH felt that the Volunteer force must have been greatly disappointed at the answer given to the deputation the other day. The impression created in the minds of hon. Members, by the language used by the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War last year, was that this subject would be well considered and that some addition would be made to the resources of the Volunteer corps. The Yeomanry force was actually paid while out for training. That was not required by the Volunteers; but he thought, if the public provided the funds for prizes to stimulate rifle-shooting, all other necessary expenses ought to be borne by the State, and especially that of clothing, which was a necessary article of Volunteer equipment.

COLONEL C. H. LINDSAY: Sir, I rise in the position of a Volunteer commanding officer, and as a duty which I owe to the service in which I am engaged; and I cannot help remarking that the question of an increase of the Capitation Grant is a much more serious one than many people seem to think. I shall, therefore, divide the remarks that I think necessary to make into three parts-namely, the past, the present, and the future, of the Volunteer movement. It is not difficult to describe the two former. With regard to the past, I will simply date back to the year 1859, and ask the Committee to remember what was the feeling which existed upon the question of invasion by France. It was, no doubt, an uneasy one, and one that was derogatory to the character and position of England; and if it had continued, most injurious to the interests of her trade and commerce. A remedy for this state of feeling was wanted. It was found by the bone and sinew of the country, who commenced the great national movement of defence; but which, for a time, did not inspire the necessary confidence. It must be, however, in the recollection of the Committee, that the movement did before long gain the approval and confidence of the country; and, from that time to this, a valuable and necessary armament has been recognized, possessing a great moral effect over Europe, settling the question of invasion, and dispelling alarm and panic, which would have been so destructive to every interest. So much for the past. With respect to the present position of the Volunteer service, it continues to exist. It

COLONEL SYKES, though not anxious to increase the public expenditure, thought that the Volunteers ought to receive some-exists partly upon the inadequate support thing more than they did. The majority of the men composing the Volunteer ranks were workmen receiving weekly wages averaging from £1 to 30s. per week; and in their case, after three or four years' service, when their clothing was worn out they were unable to replace it, and were consequently lost to the service. The regimental subscriptions were always considerable, and the officers in command deserved the greatest possible credit for the pecuniary assistance they rendered. In India when men were specially employed they received an increased allowance. And he thought that when the Volunteers went to such places as Brighton or Portsmouth, it would be well to pay for their transit. Such casual allowances might be made

it receives from the Government; partly, upon the support from private sources, and partly upon its own merits. It is more efficient than at any other period of its history. It has been mainly instrumental in the introduction of rifle shooting throughout the country. It has been instrumental in advancing science, in the manufacture of small arms, and it has produced the most remarkable skill in the use of those arms. Its discipline, its prestige, its morality, and its social element, are in a higher state of action than at any other time; and it is ready and anxious to continue to preserve those attributes, provided the Government of the day is willing to support it, and provide for its requirements; and this brings me to the important sub

we are,

But, unless something more be done in support of the movement, we may all find ourselves in a serious scrape; some eight or ten years hence, when the present dynasty of France may have passed away, when our army may be engaged in some European war, and our shores denuded of the British bayonet, owing to the Volunteers of the country having dwindled down to a myth. We cannot now expect any additional Grant this year, owing to the heavy expenditure required by the army; but we ought to receive some assurance that our necessary requirements will receive the favourable consideration of the Government next year; for unless it can do so, consequences much to be regretted might ensue, against which our efforts would be powerless.

MR. DENT, in answer to the hon. Member for Devizes (Mr. D. Griffith), said he supposed that the reason why the Yeomanry were paid and the Volunteers were not was, that the Yeomanry had to be away from home with their horses for eight days, while it seldom happened that the Volunteers were absent for a single night.

ject of the desired increase of the Capita-port from Government, it would be better tion Grant, which is not going to be given. that that policy should be declared, so that Now, Sir, as a Volunteer commanding our position may be clearly understood. officer, I have received in common with every other commanding officer in the country, that ultimatum, and I have, therefore, no hesitation in saying that the axe has been laid at the root by that ultimatum; and that its continued existence and efficiency are endangered by it; and that we, as commanding officers, will be placed in a very awkward and delicate position. The time has arrived when some clear understanding is necessary, so that there may be no mistake as to the position in which as the nation's guard of defence. This is the serious and natural view to take, and it bears especially upon the future position of the movement. Now, it has frequently been remarked that the Volunteer movement has taken deep root in the country. Sir, no institution can be said to have taken root at all, if it is neither self-supporting nor adequately supported by the Government; and it is partly for that reason that we have, on two or three occasions, recorded our almost unanimous opinion that the requirements of it cannot be much longer met with success, unless the Government consent to increase the Grant, for the purses of those who have always been friends of the movement are wearied out. Sir, that significant deputation which waited upon the Secretary of State for War, a few days ago, informed him, through the noble Lord the Member for Haddingtonshire, what we, as commanding officers, considered to be necessary that we did not ask as a favour, or a right, but that we considered our duty, both to the Government and the country, was to inform them of our opinion; and the noble Lord made it clearly understood that, in the event of an unfavourable reply, we should consider ourselves relieved from any responsibility should the Volunteer service collapse for want of support. We consider our opinion, as commanding officers, to be entitled to MR. AYRTON said, that the other eventhe fullest respect; and we cannot agreeing, while he was calling attention to some that the flourishing state of the service should be used as an argument against further aid from Government, for it would be a premium upon inefficiency and languor; and it is an unjust acknowledgment, after the extraordinary exertions that have been made to keep up the service in high efficiency and discipline for the honour and credit of the country. If the Volunteer movement is not worth any additional sup

MR. ALDERMAN LUSK said, he had always been in favour of economy; but he thought it barely respectable for the country to take services which were admitted to be very valuable, and, at the same time, to allow poor men to put their hands into their own pockets for the purpose of rendering those services.

MR. OTWAY contended that all men performing the same service should have the same rate of pay. When he had asked whether the serjeant-instructors of Volunteers were to have the additional 2d. as the same class of men received in the army, he was told that the matter was under the consideration of Government. He wished now to ascertain whether that question had been settled?

remarks made by the Secretary of State for War, the right hon. Baronet had interrupted him for the purpose of declaring that he had not made the statement attributed to him. Since then he had enjoyed the advantage of reading a very accurate report of the speech made by the right hon. Baronet, and found that it exactly corresponded with the views which he had expressed, and that the right hon.