COAL MINING FATALITIES IN U.S.A. SINCE INAUGURATION OF BUREAU OF MINES

I would also like to introduce into the record the United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Mines Bulletin No. 420, entitled "Coal-Mine Accidents in the United States: 1936."

Mr. CRAVENS. Is that the latest one?

Mr. FAGAN. That is the latest one I was ever able to get hold of. Mr. SOMERS. Without objection the documents referred to by the witness will be received by the committee. While they will not be incorporated in the record they will be used by the committee for reference purposes.

(The address of Mr. Clark and the Bureau of Mines Bulletin No. 420 are in the files of the committee.)

Mr. SOMERS. Mr. Fagan, in your experience, have you ever been able to have the State of West Virginia incorporate in its laws some of the recommendations that you have submitted here today?

Mr. FAGAN. I come from the State of Pennsylvania, Congressman, but I have been over in West Virginia.

Mr. SOMERS. Have you worked in West Virginia?

Mr. FAGAN. NO; I never worked in West Virginia, but I have done a lot of organizing work in West Virginia, especially in the northern field, and for a long time I had two mines in that section that were a part of district No. 5, in West Virginia.

Mr. SOMERS. What has been your experience with State legislatures in regard to mining legislation? Why is it that statutes drawn by them are not satisfactory to you workers?

Mr. FAGAN. Well, back in 1911, in Pennsylvania, we changed the Mining Code. We were fighting from 1911 to 1939 with the Pennsylvania Legislature to make a change. We did make very few changes, and we think Pennsylvania has a fine mining law, but at the same time with all of the benefits that we have in the State of Pennsylvania we feel that if there was Federal inspection that it would make that supervision much better. After all, a greater amount of inspection and supervision will bring about a greater degree of safety in the coal mines.

Mr. SOMERS. You would not advocate a dual inspection? If an efficient bureau inspected adequately there would be no sense in having four or five inefficient bodies, would there?

Mr. FAGAN. That is correct.

Mr. SOMERS. So that one efficient body could do the work.
Mr. FAGAN. That is correct.

Mr. SOMERS. Then, if we have the Federal Government making inspections, there would be no need for the State to likewise inspect. Mr. FAGAN. Yes; there is need for the State. After all, there are elements of danger that arise not only daily but hourly in a coal mine, and as we went along, the United Mine Workers of America, we have agreed to every safety measure proposed by management, as in regard to the electric cables and various other things that have increased safety in lifting and loading or cutting of coal, and yet there may be a great element of danger there, where there is an extraordinary amount of coal dust or gas that has not been properly removed or the mine is not properly ventilated. Then, too, there may be elements of danger to which the main inspector shuts his eyes. You know there are some mine inspectors who are absolutely honest and courageous and have good suggestions and have excellent records

for safety, and then there are others who are politically minded and go along with management and shut their eyes to dangers that they should see and warn the management that if within a certain time they do not remedy those things the mine will have to be shut down. So if there were Federal inspectors to come in and check up the mines there is not any doubt in our minds at all but that this State inspector could be brought on the carpet and told that there is danger in there that should be remedied.

Mr. SOMERS. Let me see if I get the distinction. Do I understand that the State inspections are more frequent than the Government inspections would be?

Mr. FAGAN. There are no Federal Government inspections at the present time.

Mr. SOMERS. I am assuming the bill was passed.

Mr. FAGAN. Yes; this bill asks that the mines be inspected at least once a year. If they could be inspected oftener, why, the better. Mr. SOMERS. How often do you have State inspection?

Mr. FAGAN. That all depends. I know mines in Pennsylvania where there has not been an inspection for over a year.

Mr. SOMERS. I still confess I do not see the advantage of dual inspection.

Mr. FAGAN. It is not dual inspection at all. It is merely the Federal Government doing something through legislation to bring about a greater degree of safety and to save the lives of the men in the mines.

Mr. SOMERS. That is true; but what can your State inspection contribute to that?

Mr. FAGAN. The State inspection can certainly do a wonderful job if they want to; but after the coal operators have been responsible for putting up a big pile of money to elect a Governor, why then he puts in the kind of inspectors that they want, and you do not get the proper inspection.

Mr. SOMERS. Then it goes down to the fact that although you have a State's responsibility to do it, they do not do it.

Mr. FAGAN. That is right.

Mr. SOMERS. Therefore they have to appeal to the Federal Government to do something which the State refuses to do, although it is their responsibility.

Mr. FAGAN. Yes. After all, bituminous coal is interstate commerce, and the Federal Government has the right to go in there and see that the men who are producing that coal are entitled to a greater degree of safety.

Mr. SOMERS. Have you any questions?

Mr. CRAVENS. I do not know whether it is in Mr. Fagan's statement or perhaps in Mr. Mitch's, but in one of those two statements there was a reference made to, I believe, the necessarily secretive attitude of the Bureau of Mines.

Mr. FAGAN. I made that statement. I said further that there was a time when the Bureau of Mines made inspections and investigations after explosions, and they were probably given to the management of the mines by the Government but the public knew nothing about it. Since Secretary Ickes has taken charge of the Department

of the Interior the Bureau of Mines gave the results of the last two explosions to the public, which was a very beneficial thing.

Mr. CRAVENS. That is what I recalled. I remember Mr. Owens at the Willow Grove investigation said, in his opinion, the matter would be improved, as publicity would be given to what the Bureau of Mines found.

Mr. FAGAN. Correct.

Mr. CRAVENS. Is there something in the law which compels the Bureau of Mines to be secretive about this?

Mr. FAGAN. I do not think there is anything in the law, but you have a man at the head of the Department of the Interior who has courage to tell the people what is going on.

Mr. CRAVENS. It was a policy which was adopted in the past.
Mr. FAGAN. Absolutely; yes.

Mr. CRAVENS. Is it your view, Mr. Fagan, that some advantage or benefit could be obtained by publishing the reports and results of the inspections that the Bureau of Mines now makes, and that they would be beneficial to the safety of the mines?

Mr. FAGAN. There is not any doubt about it. When the report of a mine inspection is published, the men working in the mine and others find out whether or not the mine is dangerous. They find out from the report whether it is dangerous because of a lot of coal dust, or bad roofs, or bad ventilation. And the men who are working in the mine will say, "I do not know why these conditions should not be remedied."

Mr. CRAVENS. And the public would be aroused in regard to it." Mr. FAGAN. Absolutely.

Mr. CRAVENS. As I recall, Mr. Owens explained his views the same way. I have understood since this matter came up that the Pennsylvania coal-inspection law and the enforcement of it are probably the best in the world. Do you agree with that?

Mr. FAGAN. Well, I would not want to agree with that, due to the fact that there are other States that have wonderful mining departments and have very fine records of safety.

Mr. CRAVENS. Then I will put it this way: Are there better mining laws in other States, in other States which have better and more efficient inspection?

Mr. FAGAN. I think our State law is equal to any other State law in the 28 coal-producing States in the Nation.

Some of the min-
They have never

Mr. CRAVENS. Are some of those laws better than others? Mr. FAGAN. Oh, there is not any doubt about it. ing laws are absolutely obsolete and inadequate. been changed since the age of mechanization arrived. There is not any doubt about it that something must be done to meet the mechanization of the mine, because there is not any doubt at all but that there is a greater degree of hazard in coal mines today as a result of mechanization.

Mr. CRAVENS. What has been your experience from a practical standpoint in regard to those States that have their inspectors under civil service as compared to those who are political appointees subject to removal with the change of the administration? In other words, do you think civil-service features improve the situation, or do you think it has no effect on it?

Mr. FAGAN. Do you mean where the mine inspector has to pass an examination; that is, take an examination?

Mr. CRAVENS. And where his tenure of office is not changed each time the Governor is changed, but where you have a tenure of office as long as he does his duties properly, irrespective of his political affiliations or whatever political party might be in power?

Mr. FAGAN. There is no doubt that the man should be more competent who takes an examination, and if he is given a civil-service examination, either oral or written, will show whether he is competent and qualified as an inspector. A man passing such a civilservice examination is certainly more likely to be better qualified than one who is a political appointee.

Mr. CRAVENS. I agree with you on that, but what I was getting at is this that after that man is selected under civil service he would continue to hold his position or office irrespective of his political views or affiliations. Doesn't that also, in your judgment, tend to increase or improve the type of man in the service?

Mr. FAGAN. That should bring about better technical safety, because a man as he goes along becomes more competent and practical and learns all the dangers to be met, and he knows he will not be removed because of political considerations, and he can have courage to say to both the management and the men what they should do to comply with the law, whether Federal or State law.

Mr. CRAVENS. In the Willow Grove investigation a man by the name of McGee said he had been there several years and held his position under civil service but through changing administrations. I think he said he was a Democrat, and was appointed as such, but the Republicans came in and never interfered with him.

Mr. FAGAN. That is true. Of course, one of the great problems we are confronted with in State mine inspection is that many times the legislature or the administration does not appropriate the proper amount of money to take care of the inspections. Therefore, they have to decrease the number of their inspectors, and the men who are inspecting have too much work to do and cannot get around frequently enough to make inspections.

Mr. CRAVENS. Are they not impairing the civil-service law?
Mr. FAGAN. That is correct.

Mr. CRAVENS. That is all.

Mr. BRADLEY. In the present bill which we are considering, would there be any objection on your part to the suggestion that has been made that we definitely state that this inspection shall be made by the Bureau of Mines? It says now, "any agency that the Secretary of the Interior may select"; and it says in there, I believe, that they should cooperate with the Bureau of Mines.

Now, the suggestion was made here, I believe on Tuesday, that the Bureau of Mines, of course, was a very capable organization and we have the highest regard for the record they have built up in research and in rescue work and in subsequent investigations of disasters. But this law does not specifically state that this proposed inspection must be made by the Bureau of Mines. In other words, the gate is wide open to set up an entirely new agency down here. Mr. FAGAN. Yes; but I understand that it would come under the Federal Bureau of Mines.