that the duty on the paper in this book amounts to less than half a cent a copy to the consumer.

Mr. GAINES. What is the book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. This is just an ordinary novel, called "The Extreme Test," by Mrs. Reynolds.

Mr. GAINES. What did it cost you to buy it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. It cost $1.18 at a bookstore here in Washington. Of course the figures here are ample, because we have weighed the cover, including it in the weight, and of course the part that interests us is the part inside.

Mr. RANDELL. I think the question was what it cost to bind it.
Mr. GAINES. No; I asked him what it cost to buy it.

Mr. RANDELL. I thought you said to bind it.

Mr. GAINES. No, to buy it. Did you buy it in Washington?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GAINES. What did it cost, do you remember?

Mr. SULLIVAN. A dollar and eighteen cents.

Mr. GAINES. What is the paper in it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The paper is an average 4 cent a pound paper. less 3 per cent for 30 days, and the paper in this volume weighs a scant 15 ounces, including the cover, so that fifteen-sixteenths of this makes the cost of this 3.75 cents, or a trifle over 5 mills per copy.

Mr. GAINES. Assuming that the entire duty is added to the cost of the paper, how much would that increase the cost of that volume; how much would that be on the book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Half a cent for this copy.

Mr. GAINES. Half a cent for a book costing a dollar and eighteen cents?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. RANDELL. What did it cost to manufacture that book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That I can not tell you, sir. I am a paper manufacturer and not a book manufacturer. Of course, you will have to ask some book manufacturer what it cost to manufacture. I am only talking about the paper.

Mr. RANDELL. What sort of binding is it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Just the ordinary binding that is on novels.

The CHAIRMAN. Do not spend too much time on these exhibits. You can not get them into the record.

Mr. RANDELL. How would you describe that binding?
Mr. SULLIVAN. It is just an ordinary novel binding.

Mr. RANDELL. Is it cloth or leather?

Mr. SULLIVAN. It is a cloth binding. Now, I have two other illustrations here which may possibly interest you. Here is a magazine. This magazine weighs 10 ounces, so that in the twelve months there would be 81 pounds used in the year's issue. The tariff on that amounts to one-fourth of a cent to the consumer per number.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Are you talking about the tariff on the book or on the paper?

Mr. SULLIVAN. On the paper.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. You are not talking about the printing or the binding?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir: I am speaking only of the paper that is in the book. Here is another illustration. This is a better magazine, which shows a half a cent a number per year to the consumer; so that,

taking all those facts into consideration, we feel that our duty is not an excessive one.

Mr. CLARK. Now, while you got a very little off of each one, you got a great deal off of the total; is not that true?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Of course that is true; yes, sir. But at the same time we feel that our industry is entitled to the same protection as all other industries.

Mr. CLARK. Some of these industries have a protection of 200 or 300 per cent. Do you want that or not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we ask that it shall remain as it is.

Mr. CLARK. Would you rather have them cut down to yours or have yours raised up to theirs?

The CHAIRMAN. What is it that has a protection of 300 per cent? Mr. CLARK. I have a list in my desk where for six months there were some of them that had 100 per cent.

Mr. DALZELL. You are coming down now.

Mr. CLARK. No; I can find them where they had 300 per cent.
Mr. GRIGGS. You represent the paper makers?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The paper part.

Mr. GRIGGS. The book-paper manufacturers?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. And you insist that you need this tariff which at present exists, and you do not want it increased or decreased.

Mr. SULLIVAN. No. sir; we respectfully ask that it remain as it is. Mr. GRIGGS. Have you not had any combination among yourselves? Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Did you not meet about a year ago, or some time ago, at Atlantic City and elsewhere, and raise the price of all this paper about $10 a ton?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we had no combination whatever.

Mr. GRIGGS. It went up $10 a ton, did it not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No; I do not think it did.

Mr. GRIGGS. What was it, $9?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That depends on the grade. Of course the book papers you can buy as low as

Mr. GRIGGS. I refer to the average.

Mr. SULLIVAN. The highest I can recall as far as our own price was concerned, I think the highest we got, was an increase of about $7.50

a ton.

Mr. GRIGGS. Is that the highest you got?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is the highest.

Mr. GRIGGS. The highest increase you got?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. GRIGGS. Not the highest you made?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; because we make paper from 3 cents a pound up to 6.

Mr. GRIGGS. I just wanted to understand where you got it. You said the highest increase you got was $7.50 a ton. Where did you get that?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Where?

Mr. GRIGGS. Yes; you said you got it somewhere. Where did you get it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. How do you mean, where did we get it?

Mr. GRIGGS. I asked you where this increase came from and you said there was no combination and no understanding and no agreement, and when I asked you what was the highest, you began to speculate on it in your mind, and you said the highest you got was $7.50.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Out of the deal?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; no deal. We have no affiliation with any other concern.

Mr. GRIGGS. You have no general agreement?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Did you all go up at the same time?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir: we did not.

Mr. GRIGGS. How long did you wait after the others went up? Mr. SULLIVAN. We were up before they were, or some of them. Mr. GRIGGS. You went up first?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. The others followed you up?

Mr. SULLIVAN. I do not know whether they followed us or not. We increased the cost of our paper as the demand increased, and as the cost of the raw materials increased. We had to do it or quit business.

Mr. GRIGGS. And they all were in the same fix.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir: I guess they were.

Mr. GRIGGS. And all understood it at the same time?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes: I can not say whether they understood it. Mr. GRIGGS. And all went up. Now, did you not really have a

meeting in Atlantic City?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir; we had a meeting at Atlantic City, but it was rather a jollification at Atlantic City.

Mr. GRIGGS. That was after you got the price raised?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Why the jollification?

Mr. SULLIVAN. There seems to have been a good deal of stre-s laid on the meeting at Atlantic City, and it is rather amusing from the fact that there was really nothing but a social time in Atlantic City. Mr. GRIGGS. What is that?

Mr. SULLIVAN. So far as I know, there was nothing but a social time in Atlantic City, although there seems to be a great deal of stress laid upon the meeting at Atlantic City.

Mr. GRIGGS. It was a meeting of the manufacturers of book paper at Atlantic City, was it not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. GRIGGS. And they all with one accord, with no social ties, simply met in Atlantic City to have a jollification and a good time: is

that true?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. GRIGGS. They simply wanted to get acquainted?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir: that is right. They ought to have gotten acquainted. We did not know each other for a long time.

Mr. GRIGGS. How long was it after that jollification meeting before the price of paper went up?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That I could not tell you- -as there was not any general rise in the price of paper.

Mr. GRIGGS. I understand. Your raise, I am talking about now. Mr. SULLIVAN. That I could not tell you, whether it was before or after that. We raised from month to month as the cost of our material increased or we were in a position to do so. We had so much

business we were in a position to ask for an increase.

Mr. GRIGGS. You represent really all of the book-paper manufacturers, do you not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Only in presenting this brief.

Mr. GRIGGS. Well, I understand; I mean here. You represent all of them, and you really do not know when the price went up among the others.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I can not tell you positively now.

Mr. GRIGGS. But it went up soon after the jollification meeting you had in Atlantic City?

Mr. SULLIVAN. At the present time I can not tell you whether it was raised before or after that.

Mr. GRIGGS. Well, you want to amend your testimony on that part, then, because you said just now that paper did not go up until after that meeting.

I

Mr. SULLIVAN. No; I did not. I was speaking about ourselves. said I could not tell you whether ours went up before or after. We were raising from month to month.

Mr. GRIGGS. But you said your price went up, and that it went up before the meeting at Atlantic City.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. GRIGGS. You did not intend to say that?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir; it went up before; but I think it went up possibly four or five months afterwards.

Mr. BONYNGE. You did not make all the increase at one time? Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we did not. Our prices were raised 15 cents at a time.

Mr. FORDNEY. You ought to be entitled to a jollification once a year when some men have a jollification every day, ought you not? Mr. SULLIVAN. That is true. We do not have many of them in our industry.

Mr. GAINES. What is the difference between news paper and book paper?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Most of the difference between news paper and book paper is that one uses ground wood and the other uses soda pulp. Mr. GAINES. Which do you use?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Soda pulp.

Mr. GAINES. Is that what you call sulphite?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; both grades of paper use sulphite, both news and book paper. Soda pulp is the soda process. Sulphite is the sulphite process.

Mr. BOUTELL. You represent the manufacturers of book paper?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. And not the jobbers?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Not the jobbers.

Mr. BOUTELL. How many manufacturers are there of this book

paper?

Mr. SULLIVAN. There are 46.

Mr. BOUTELL. Where are they located, geographically?

Mr. SULLIVAN. They are located all over the country, from Maine to Wisconsin. There is a list of them in this brief.

Mr. BOUTELL. Are there any of them west of the Mississippi?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. How far west do they go?

Mr. SULLIVAN. There is one out at Everett, Wash.

Mr. BOUTELL. So they extend clear across the continent?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. To whom do they sell, to the jobbers or the publishers direct?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Each one of these concerns has a different method of doing business. Some sell to the jobbers and do not sell to the consumers direct, and some mills sell to the consumers direct.

Mr. BOUTELL. There are only two classes of purchasers, either jobbers or consumers?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. Has there been any identity of interest to any extent of any two or more of these 46 mills?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; not to my knowledge.

Mr. BOUTELL. Are these 46 mills all operated by corporations?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir. There are some here that are not corporations.

Mr. BOUTELL. Some are individuals and some firms and some incorporated companies?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. And there is no community of ownership between any two of them?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. Has there ever been any agreement between any two of more of these manufacturers of book paper, or a combination of territory?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. BOUTELL. Or an agreement as to prices?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. BOUTELL. To the jobber or to the publisher?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. What was the total output of these 46 factories for any one year. Take any one year you choose.

Mr. SULLIVAN. This brief says, upon that point: "Unfortunately, statistics covering the production of book paper and similar grades for the current calendar year are unavailable, the year of 1908 being still incomplete and having some fifty-odd working days (the months of November and December) still to hear from. But estimating the production for the year 1908 of all mills engaged in manufacturing book paper and similar grades at about 90 per cent of the normal productive capacity, we would have an estimated average daily production of about 2,100 tons."

Mr. BOUTELL. Two thousand one hundred tons per day would be the average?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOUTELL. For any year?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir. Of course in 1905, according to the Bureau of the Census-that was before we took any statistics ourselves the paper manufactured was 434,500 tons, which is equal to a