and the southern people all over the State were very much alarmed. I think many of the organizations did not have any name; parties organized themselves so as to be ready in case they were attacked. Ladies were ravished by some of these negroes, who were tried and put in the penitentiary, but were turned out in a few days afterward. There was a great deal of insecurity in the country, and I think this organization was got up to protect the weak, with no political intention at all.

Question. Do I understand you to say that the Loyal League organization in Tennessee countenanced or promoted crimes of the kind which you have mentioned ?

Answer. I do not know that they promoted them; but those crimes were not punished; there was very little law then.

Question. Was this before the organization of the State government, or did it continue afterward?

Answer. Well, it continued so for a year afterward.

Question. How long, according to your information, did this Ku-Klux organization exist?

Answer. I think it was disorganized in the early part of 1868.

Question. Did it continue until after the presidential election?

Answer. No, sir; I think it was in the latter part of 1867, or the early part of 1868; I do not know the exact date.

Question. Where can we get the information as to the manner of its dissolution and the time of it?

Answer. I do not know where you can get it. I never got any positive information except that it was generally understood that the organization was broken up. Question. Who were understood to belong to it?

Answer. Men of the Southern States, citizens.

Question. Did they speak to you without hesitation of the organization, as if it required no concealment ?

Answer. No, sir; they did not.

Question. Did they deny or admit its existence?

Answer. They did not do either; they did not deny it or admit it. It was understood though, among the southern people, that this organization had disbanded about the time of the nomination of candidates for President of the United States.

Question. When they proceeded to carry out the objects of the organization, did they do it in numbers, by riding in bands?

Answer. I do not know; I never saw the organization together in my life; never saw them out in any numbers, or anything of the kind.

Question. Did you get the same information in regard to that as you did in regard to its origin and its disbanding?

Answer. Yes, sir; I understood that they patrolled communities, rode over neighborhoods.

Question. Did they go in disguise?

Answer. I suppose some of them did.

Question. Was that the geueral understanding?

Answer. That was the rumor.

Question. Did they proceed to the extent of whipping or killing men?

Answer. I heard of men being killed, but I did not know who did it.

Question. Was it done by these persons in disguise?

Answer. Well, yes, sir; there were men killed in Tennessee and in Mississippi by bands

in disguise. There were men found down there disguised, white men and negroes both.

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Did not the same organization extend into Mississippi?

Answer. I do not know whether it did or did not.

Question. Have you any knowledge of any secret organization in Mississippi?

Answer. I never heard of but one case where there was anything of that sort over there, that came under my direct knowledge.

Question. Where was that?

Answer. At Holly Springs.
Question. How long since?

Answer. In 1867.

Question. In that portion of the State of Mississippi through which your road runs, have you any knowledge of any outrages by persons in disguise having been committed since 1867 ?

Answer. Only one instance, and that was not an outrage.

Question. Where was that?

Answer. At Greensboro, Alabama. Well, I heard of another one,

Question. What occurred at Greensboro?

Answer. Well, a man was taken out of jail for stealing horses.

Question. Did they release him?

Answer. Yes, sir. I was not there at the time; I was in Memphis at the time; they passed my camp on the road.

Question. Were they in disguise?

Answer. It was reported that they were.

Question. How late was that?

Answer. I suppose it was eighteen months ago; may be not so long as that.

Question. In what county is Greensboro?

Answer. It is in Hale County.

Question. What was the other instance to which you were about to refer a moment ago?

Answer. The other was at Eutaw, on the line of my road.

Question. In Greene County, Alabama?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Through what counties does your road run?

Answer. It runs through Perry, Hale, Greene, Dallas, and Pickens Counties, Alabama; through Lowndes, Monroe, Pontotoc, Chickasaw, Union, Benton, Marshall, and De Soto Counties, in Mississippi; and Shelby County, in Tennessee. It runs across the corners of those counties, not directly through the most of them.

so.

Question. What was the occurrence in Eutaw to which you referred?

Answer. That was the case of Miller, I think; I heard that; I do not know it to be

It was currently reported there that this man was killed one night by a band of disguised men.

By Mr. BECK:

Question. Was it Boyd?

Answer. Yes, sir; Boyd was the name. Miller was an uncle of Boyd.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Question. Have you any knowledge of any visit by disguised men in the county of Pontotoc, Mississippi?

Answer. I have not.

Question. Have you heard of none there recently?

Answer. I heard something about some men being disguised coming there, and one of them was shot; but I do not know anything about it.

Question. Do you know a man in Pontotoc by the name of Pollard?

Answer. No, sir; I do not know him.

Question. Did you meet a man of that name there in 1867 or 1868 ?

Answer. I have no recollection of meeting a man there of that name. I was in the county in 1869, canvassing the county, and I made a speech in every civil district in the county, for subscriptions to the road I am interested in. In 1868 I made a speech at Pontotoc in regard to the same road, and I met a great many men there I did not know.

Question. Did this organization of Ku-Klux exist there at that time?

Answer. I do not think it did; I never heard of it.

Question. Had you any communication with Pollard about establishing it there? Answer. No, sir.

Question. You did not know Pollard?

Answer. I never saw him or heard of him, that I recollect. I do not know many men there in that county, except those who were in the army. There was one regiment from that county that served under me, and I knew a few of the leading men in Pontotoc.

Question. Then I understand you to say that this whole statement, giving the idea that you knew of your own knowledge of the organization of the Ku Klux, or that you knew of their numbers or their discipline, is incorrect?

Answer. I never said to that man that I knew anything about it.

Question. Had you ever a constitution of the order?

Answer. I saw one; yes, sir.

Question. Where was that?

Answer. That was in Memphis.

Question. Who had it?

Question. What was the purport of it?

Answer. The purport of that constitution, as far as I recollect it now, was that the organization was formed for self-protection. The first obligation they took, if I recol lect it aright, was to abide by and obey the laws of the country; to protect the weak; to protect the women and children; obligating themselves to stand by each other in case of insurrection or anything of that sort. I think that was about the substance of the obligation.

Question. Was it a secret organization?

Answer. I presume it was.

Question. Did it so purport to be in the constitution?

Answer. Yes, sir; I think so.

Question. The constitution required secrecy?

Answer. I think it required secrecy.

Question. Did it require the members of the society to obey the orders of all superior officers?

Answer. Yes, sir; I think so.

Question. Under what penalty?

Answer. I do not think there was any penalty attached; I do not recollect now.
Question. Did it refer to a ritual, or a mode of initiation?

Answer. I think it did.

Question. What was the name of the organization given in that constitution ?
Answer. Ku-Klux.

Question. It was called Ku-Klux?

Answer. No, sir; it was not called Ku-Klux. I do not think there was any name given to it.

Question. No name given to it?

Answer. No, sir; I do not think there was. As well as I recollect, there were three stars in place of a name. I do not think there was any name given to it.

Question. That is, when it came to the name there was a blank, and stars in the blank?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Signifying that the name was to be kept secret?

Answer. You are to place your own construction on that.

Question. That is the way it stood-the name of the organization left blank, and stars in its place--that is the way it stood in the constitution?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Have you any idea how that came to be sent to you?
Answer. No, sir; I do not know how it came to be sent to me.
Question. From what point was it sent?

Answer. It was mailed from some place in Tennessee; I do not recollect now what point it was mailed from. I was getting at that time from fifty to one hundred letters a day, and had a private secretary writing all the time. I was receiving letters from all the Southern States, men complaining, being dissatisfied, persons whose friends had been killed, or their families insulted, and they were writing to me to know what they ought to do.

Question. Was there any request of any character to you in connection with this constitution?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. There was no written communication along with it?

Question. Was there anything to show where it was printed?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. No printer's name on it ?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. No place at which it was printed?

Answer. No; there was nothing indicating where it was printed; there was nothing to indicate that; I am certain there was not.

Question. It was the constitution of a secret society, organized where?

Answer. Well, it did not say.

Question. Do you believe that constitution was the basis of the organization which you say existed in Tennessee?

Answer. I think it was.

Question. Did it require an organization in each county?

Answer. Well, I cannot say whether it did not; I do not know whether they had an organization in each county or not.

Question. Did the constitution require it?

Answer. I think not.

Question. Was there a mode of getting up subordinate and superior organizations? Answer. Well, I presume there was; I do not recollect now. Well, if I had thought

this thing would have come up in that shape, I would have tried to have gotten hold of one of these prescripts, as they were called, to give to you.

Question. Is it your impression that there were subordinate camps, or lodges, or divisions, whatever they were called, in each county?

Answer. Well, yes, sir; I reckon there was.

Question. Under the control of a superior officer in the county ?

Answer. Yes, sir; I presume that was the intention of it.

Question. Were they required to report to a superior organization in the State

Answer. I do not think they were; I do not recollect that they were.

Question. In the account of this interview you are represented as saying, "This list of names is forwarded to the grand commander of the State, who is thus enabled to know who are our friends and who are not."

Answer. I do not think there is anything in this prescript indicating anything of that

sort.

Question. There may not be a "grand commander;" may there not be a chief officer of this organization in the State?

Answer. I do not know whether there was or not.

Question. You read the prescript?

Answer. Yes, sir; there was no name given in the prescript.

Question. I am not speaking of the name of the man; but was there not such an officer, to be appointed or selected in the State?

Answer. It looks as if there would be in an organization of that sort.

Question. Is not that your impression, that there was a State organization, organizations in the counties, and interior organizations in the counties?

Answer. No, sir; I did not consider it a State organization.

Question. Then each county was an organization in itself?

Answer. There might have been an organization in the State, but, from all the information I could get, it was laid off in counties of the State. I think this organization was more in the neighborhood of places where there was danger of persons being molested, or in large negro counties, where they were fearful that the negroes would rise up. I think that is where the organization existed mostly. I do not think it existed at all in the poorer neighborhoods, where there was no danger of insurrection. There were a great many fires at that time, burning of gin-houses, mills, &c.

Question. Had there been any disturbance of that kind in your neighborhood? Answer. No, sir; there was no difficulty there in my neighborhood, with one excep

tion.

Question. Did you act upon that prescript?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. Did you take any steps for organizing under it?

Answer. I do not think I am compelled to answer any question that would implicate me in anything. I believe the law does not require that I should do anything of the

sort.

Question. Do you place your declination to answer upon that ground?
Answer. I do not.

I will commu

Question. I only wish to know your reasons for declining to answer. nicate to you the fact that there is an act of Congress which provides that such a reason shall not excuse a witness from answering. If you desire, I will read it to you. It is as follows:

"That the provisions of the second section of the act entitled 'An act more effectually to enforce the attendance of witnesses on the summons of either House of Congress, and to compel them to discover testimony,' approved January 24, 1857, be amended, altered, and repealed, so as to read as follows: That the testimony of a witness examined and testifying before either House of Congress, or any committee of either House of Congress, shall not be used as evidence in any criminal proceeding against such witness in any court of justice: Provided, however, That no official paper or record produced by such witness on such examination shall be held or taken to be included within the privilege of said evidence so to protect such witness from any criminal proceeding as aforesaid; and no witness shall hereafter be allowed to refuse to testify to any fact, or to produce any paper touching which he shall be examined by either House of Congress or any committee of either House, for the reason that his testimony touching such fact, or the production of sucu paper, may tend to disgrace him or otherwise render him infamous: Provided, That nothing in this act shall be construed to exempt any witness from prosecution and punishment for purjury committed by him in testifying as aforesaid."

I will repeat the question: Did you take any steps for organizing an association or society under that prescription?

Answer. I did not.

Question. Did you communicate it to any other person for the purpose of having an organization made?

Answer. The organization was made, I presume, before I ever saw the prescript or knew anything about it.

Question. Did you communicate this prescript, or any copy of it, to any person, for the purpose of enabling them to organize under it?

Answer. I never sent out any of the prescripts, or anything of that kind, to any one. Question. Did you give this particular prescript, or any copy of it, to anybody, so that they might use it for organizing under it?

Answer. I have just stated that I never gave out any or sent out any for the purpose of organizing.

Question. I am now inquiring about this particular prescript, not about distributing

others.

Answer. No, sir, I never did; I burned that one up.

Question. Did you show it to any one, read it to any one, or allow any one to read it? Answer. I am not able to answer that question; I do not recollect whether I ever did or not; I might have shown it and I might not have shown it; I do not recollect. Question. Were there any organizations of this order, whatever it may be, in your neighborhood after that time?

Answer. I presume there were before.

Question. Were there any afterward?

Answer. I think there were.

Question. Do you know any of the members of them?

Answer. No, sir, not now, I do not recollect the members of them.

Question. Did you know at that time who were the members?

Answer. I do not remember.

Question. Can you now tell us who were the members, or any single member, of that organization?

Answer. [After a pause.] Well, that is a question I do not want to answer now.
Question. You decline to answer?

Answer. I would prefer to have a little time, if you will permit me.

By Mr. STEVENSON :

Question. What is your reason for wanting time?

Answer. I want to study up and find out who they were, if I have got to answer the question; that is the reason.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Question. What length of time will you probably require?

Answer. Well, sir, I do not know that I could say now, as I am in the midst of this examination. I would like you to pass that over for the present and let me have some time to think over it.

Question. Do you remember whether there were any signs or pass-words referred to in the prescript?

Answer. I think there were.

Question. Were they given in it, or did the prescript refer to a ritual or mode of initiation for the signs?

Answer. I think the prescript referred to a ritual.

Question. Do you know what any of those signs and pass-words were?

Answer. I did know, but I have not thought of it in two years, and I do not know that I could give one of them.

Question. If you can give one now, do so.

Answer. I do not believe I could. You will have to let that pass over a little while, if it is necessary to answer it, for it is a matter that has gone out of my knowledge for eighteen months or two years; I have not thought of it in that time.

Question. Your impression is that the pass-words and signs were not given in the prescript, but were referred to in the ritual or mode of initiation?

Answer. I am not able to answer that question; I do not know whether they were or not.

Question. Have you ever seen those signs used among any of the men in Alabama or Mississippi.

Answer. I never have; I have never seen the organization together.

Question. Or in Tennessee?

Answer. I have never seen the organization together in numbers.

Question. Well, without seeing it together, have you ever seen those signs used for the purpose of recognition between individuals?

Answer. Yes, sir, I think I have.

Question. You recognized the signs?

Answer. Well, yes, I understood it.

Question. Understanding it, then, do you still wish time to consider whether you could give them or not?

Answer. I cannot give you one of them correctly now to save my life, I have no idea I could. It was a matter I knew very little about; I had very little to do with it. All my efforts were addressed to stop it, disband it, and prevent it.