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Tuesday, November 18, 1913. The Congress was called to order by President Pack at two o'clock p. m.

RESOLUTION TO REFER REPORTS MR. J. C. SOUTH, of Arkansas-Mr. President, I move that the Committee on Resolutions provided for in the constitution shall consider and report as soon as possible upon all reports of all standing and special committees of the Congress, except the Committee on Resolutions provided for in the constitution shall consider and report as soon as possible upon all reports of all standing and special committees of the Congress, except the Credentials Committee, and all resolutions offered in the Congress, and that the same be referred to the Committee on Resolutions immediately and without debate.

The purpose of this is that that Committee on Resolutions, being appointed by the various states, can get all the resolutions before it, the same can have their consideration, and they can report them back with recommendations or not. I have met so many men with resolutions on various topics in their pockets that if they should be offered in open convention and debated, the whole time of our meeting will be consumed in premature debate. My motion is to the effect that all resolutions shall be referred, as they are offered at the Secretary's desk, to the Committee on Resolutions, without debate, and that Committee can report them back in their proper order.

PRESIDENT Pack—That would be done without motion, anyway. It is according to our rules and regulations. Every man who has a resolution must refer it to the Committee on Resolutions, and the quicker he does it, the better.

MR. J. C. SOUTH-I have searched the rules in vain for any such provision. I cannot do more.

PRESIDENT PACK-It is there, and it will be done without any motion.

MR. DUDLEY G. WOOTEN, of Washington-Mr. President, I second the motion. The resolution provides that the reports of the various committees, as well as all resolutions, be referred to the Committee on Resolutions. In that respect it differs from the standing rule. I second the motion.

PRESIDENT PACK-I think your motion is entirely unnecessary.

MR. J. C. SOUTH-It is certainly within the ordinary rules of organizing any deliberative body to offer any motion looking to expedition of business.

PRESIDENT Pack—It is superfluous, but I will put the motion if you prefer to have me do so.

MR. J. C. SOUTH-I insist upon it.

PRESIDENT Pack-Those favoring the motion will say Aye. (The ayes responded.) Those opposing it will say No. (The noes responded.) The ayes have it; the motion is carried.

Appointment of Chairman of Committee on Resolutions.

PRESIDENT PacK—The state delegates from every state are expected to get together and elect a vice-president for the state, a secretary for the state, and a member of the Committee on Resolutions. It is particularly necessary that the member of the Committee on Resolutions shall be some one from the state who is present here now and who can go to work. These names should be turned in to the secretary of the Congress at the earliest possible moment, not later than this evening.

Under our regulations, each state appoints one member of the Committee on Resolutions. The chairman of the Committee on Resolutions is appointed by your president. I have the pleasure and honor to appoint as chairman of your Committee on Resolutions Captain J. B. White, of Kansas City, Missouri. (Applause).


PRESIDENT Pack—The next question we have up will be the report from the Committee on Water Power. The Committee on Water Power consists of these gentlemen: Dr. George F. Swain, of Massachusetts, Chairman; Gifford Pinchot; Henry L. Stimson, formerly Secretary of War; Lewis B. Stillweli, the great electrical expert; Charles R. VanHise, Chairman of the University of Wisconsin; M. O. Leighton, of Washington; E. S. Webster, of Boston; B. M. Hall; Joseph N. Teal, of Oregon. I am sure we all feel a spirit of appreciation to this committee. They are all business men, men whose time is exceedingly valuable, and they have worked incessantly to try to bring before you something worth while. It is with great pleasure that I call upon you to listen to the report from Dr. George F. Swain, chairman of the committee

MR. J. C. SOUTH-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. PRESIDENT Pack—What is the point of order?

MR. J. C. South–I have addressed the chair respectfully at least a half a dozen times, and I now desire to be heard. I am a delegate to this convention, and if there is to be any railroad

ing about it, let it be understood now. The chair very well knows that I, representing my state, offered the resolution that was adopted with but one dissenting vote, that certain reports and resolutions should be referred to the Committee on Resolutions to be named by this convention under the constitution of this convention, without debate. Now, sir, if there are reports from committees, under that resolution, the Committee on Resolutions of this convention should consider them and recommend the time and place for the hearing of them. make the point of order now that the resolution which was adopted with but one dissenting vote in this house should refer all reports of committees, without debate, to the Committee on Resolutions and that we await the report from that committee.

PRESIDENT PACK—The reports will be first read and then they will be referred to the Committee on Resolutions. The chair so rules.

Mr. Francis Cuttle, of California-Mr. President, may I ask whether or not the resolution of the gentleman did not refer to resolutions only? As one of the delegates to this Congress I voted in favor of referring the resolutions to the Committee on Resolutions, but not necessarily, or at all, the reports of the committees which are properly the property of this Congress at large.

MR. DUDLEY G. Wooten, of Washington—I do not understand how the gentleman could possibly be misled. In seconding the motion I expressly called the attention of the chair and the convention to the fact that the motion made by the gentleman from Arkansas included reports as well as resolutions, and therefore was a change from the standing rule of the Congress and the convention voted upon it with full knowledge of what it was doing.

MR. J. C. South-Mr. President!

PRESIDENT Pack—The chair rules that it understood the resolution was simply a confirmation of the rules which we have always had. The program has been provided under our rules and regulations by the Executive Committee. We appointed committees under the instruction of the last Congress to do a great work, and it is not proper that we shall not hear from them. The chair rules that it is now in order to hear from the Chairman of the Committee on Water Power. (Applause.)

MR. J. C. SOUTH-Mr. President, I desire to be heard on a question of a point of order.

A VOICE-Let us get to work!
MR. J. C. SOUTH-That is exactly what I want to do, to ex-

pedite the work of this convention. That resolution was offered with the idea of expediting the work of this convention. The resolution was in writing, was read to the convention, and the mover is not responsible for the misunderstanding of the chair with reference to the effect of the resolution. Every deliberative body has a right to make its own rules and regulations, and they should not be the subject of arbitrary interpretation by an arbitrary chairman

PRESIDENT Pack—The chair distinctly stated the resolution as he understood it was in accordance with the rules and regulations of this Congress.

MR. R. HORAK, of New York-Mr. President, how can any report be made to this assembly unless it is made by the chairman of the committee presenting the report? It comes then, as well as an oral report, a written document, which, so far as I can see here, has been handed in and explained and there has been no debate on anything. It is only coming in its regular order in the proceedings. I think the chair is perfectly right.

MR. J. C. SOUTH, of Arkansas-Dr. Wiley handed in his report but not to the convention.

PRESIDENT PACK-Dr. Wiley has made his report. We will now hear from the Chairman of the Committee on Water Power. (Applause.) I have pleasure in introducing Dr. George F. Swain, Chairman of the Committee on Water Power.



Presented by Dr. George F. Swain, Chairman. Dr. GEORGE F. Swain-Mr. President, and Members of the National Conservation Congress: I have great pleasure in informing you that after long and arduous consideration of the question of water power, the Committee have arrived at a unanimous agreement with reference to a brief statement of the fundamental principles which should govern. They have not, however, arrived at a unanimous agreement with reference to the full report which should be presented to this Congress. The majority of the Committee have arrived at an agreement and have adopted a full report, and will present that to the Congress as the report of the Committee. I will afterwards, with the permission of the president, ask ex-Secretary Stimson to read the brief statement which has been unanimously agreed upon with reference to the simple fundamental principles. What we may term the majority

report of the Committee on Water Power is as follows: To the Fifth National Conservation Congress:

The Committee on Water Power begs leave to submit the following report:

The Conservation movement in the past has done great service to the country by directing the attention of the people to the urgent necessity of preserving to themselves and providing for the wise utilization of the country's water powers. The Committee desires to express its appreciation of the work of those who inaugurated that policy.

The facts with reference to the conservation of water power have been often stated and are well known to those who have given thought to the subject. The Committee does not wish to waste the time of the Congress in a repetition of facts which are well understood. Nevertheless, the essential and fundamental principles involved cannot be too often emphasized or too clearly kept in view, and it therefore desires to summarize them briefly.

A prominent feature in the water power situation of today is the danger of unregulated monopoly. The fact that 10 groups of interests control 65% of all the developed water power in the United States, and that some of these groups are closely related through interlocking directors shows the dangers to the public interest that might arise if no measures of restraint in operation were exercised by the people.

The central need as to water power in the United States is development on terms fair both to the public and to the power interests. While it must not be forgotten that the common operation of several water powers, by equalizing the load at different times, by reducing the danger of complete breakdown, and in other ways, has legitimate and real public advantages, these advantages must be so controlled that the public shall always receive full benefit therefor.

The situation with reference to water power monopoly was effectively summed up before the National Waterways Commission on November 23, 1911, by two distinguished champions of the public interest as follows: By Mr. Gifford Pinchot:

“I am strongly in favor of the consolidation of water power plants, coupling them up over large areas. The argument made for that consolidation by Mr. Dunn on behalf of the American Institute of Electrical Engineers is absolutely unanswerable and I have long held the same opinion. Better service to the community would be forthcoming if water power companies operated over large areas. But there must be public control of their operations to prevent

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